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Post by thebeav2 on Jul 5, 2010 12:47:28 GMT -6
#2 Bridger's and 1.75 Dukes laminated Inside and out. Cats fox and coyotes. The Bridgers have Sudden Valley pads on them. And the 1.75s are laminated. I removed the stock Pans on 1.75s and replaced them with B&L round pans. Made a big difference on snapped and empty traps. Biggest trap you can use on the ground In SC Is a #2 sized trap Just about 99% 330s for otter and beaver. A #3 sized trap Is as big as you can go In the water. 39 wouldn't make It In the south
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 5, 2010 12:54:15 GMT -6
I will say catching a female coyote in the fall versus late spring early summer and the fight they apply is far,far different.
Also when weather is cooler and paranoid coyotes in more open areas adding time to a check will show you why better equipment pays off big time. I don't like repairing stuff when I can bullet proof it from the get go, makes sense to me. Don;'t cate 24,48 or 72 hr checks.
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Post by mickm on Jul 5, 2010 15:14:57 GMT -6
Gotta be honest 39, I just don't see the damage that you do. I do 24 hour checks and don't trap that many coyotes, but I have never seen a trap tore up. I file dogs, put on short chains, add swivels and bend up jaw tips. Thats it.
I do believe the frozen ground more power needed argument, makes complete sense. I just don't have trouble with coyotes tearing up traps like that.
I need to purchase a few more coyote traps for this season, but I do not see anyway in the world I can justify buying Sterlings, Jakes etc....
When in my eperiance, bridgers and dukes hold critters just as well.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 5, 2010 17:44:04 GMT -6
mick: short chains and extended checks or harsh weather conditions bad news on coyotes. I would never go back to short chains again. Your statement tells alot! you do 24hr check and don't catch many coyotes. What the discussion is for someone who catches as many coyotes or more than they do fox! Or those who can legally run longer than 24 hrs or any combination of both. Not 24 hrs and a few coyotes here and there. I could show you a pile of pictures showing you bent up dogs and pan damage but what is the point? If you want to keep runnin dukes and other stock traps for a few coyotes you catch then so be it, but I will run top end equipment because it will yield better results over time, I have seen it. You think those that talk about the benfits of larger jaw spread, modified traps and the rest are just blowing smoke serious? They talk about it because they have seen the differance on many coyotes not just a few. Why would they spend the time, money and effort if this stuff didn't offer a seeable advantage? Here you go this is the one an only sterling I have had a coyote beat the spring off, but because of the qauility it still held. Where do you think this coyote would be if a stock bridger or duke had this happen? I can tell you not in the trap and harder to get the next go round. Notice the foot is still dead center just as it was upon the catch, that is what quaility stuff can do.
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Post by mickm on Jul 5, 2010 18:18:20 GMT -6
Nick is right. I have the tendency to argue for no good reason some time. I wouldn't have even jumped in on this one, except I had the impression that Bluetick was just starting out. I'll shut up. Right after these last comments Maybe the long chains are one of the reasons I haven't seen what you have.I do not doubt you a bit, that my lesser traps would not hold up with the longer chains. I never saw the busted traps, but I did have trouble holding coyotes until I went to the short chains. I kinda resent your statement about the short chains, because although I am not a big coyote trapper, the best I have ever done was 27 in 30 days. I do however know some coyote trappers. Everyone of them that I know, uses short chains. Once again, these are folks who use 24 hour checks. As far as 24 hour check, it's a law here. In KS, I would still use a 24 hour check even if it wasn't the law. I would loose money if I didn't. I just don't see the benefit of extended checks in farm country. Sure didn't mean to aggravate anyone. I just don't think the average Joe runs a similar line to you 39. I have never personally had the luxury of buying what I wanted. I have had to buy what I could afford, and learn how to use it. I'll shut up now. Honest!
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Post by thebeav2 on Jul 5, 2010 18:45:06 GMT -6
Long chains will cause that problem extended checks will also cause all this damage you speak of. I have trapped coyotes for a long time and I don't get all this damage you talk about. Sure I get a bent dog or two big deal. Lay the dog on the trowel and straiten It out with your hammer. Never had a pan tore off and never had a trap laying there In pieces. Must be a Sterling problem. It's all about your trapping style. And what you can afford.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 5, 2010 18:57:16 GMT -6
Bridger dogs get mangled often. I ran longsprings for coyotes when I was after them, never saw a bent dog. The dogs are upside down on most coil springs.
I've always done extended checks, you'd go broke out in this sterile country running 24 hours.
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Post by mickm on Jul 5, 2010 19:06:52 GMT -6
I certainly understand that.
What it comes down to is that everyone has to do what is right for them.
Like I said, i wouldn't have offered advice, unless I thought it was needed.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 6, 2010 5:24:52 GMT -6
everyone has an opinion and different dealings. You say you know alot of coyote trappers using short chain, I know of very darn few who do be it adc or fur trapping. Short chains persent their own problems, and those to many are far worse than having to beef up stock traps or run high end equipment.
You would go broke running an extended check, tell me how?
I have trapped areas that have 24hr, 48 hr and 72 hr and for "me" I had sterlings in Iowa on 24 hr checks and the results are there to say they have a benefit for any check period.
Bluetick described what traps he already had for his area minus alot of snow he has a good arsenal of traps.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 6, 2010 6:08:13 GMT -6
at the risk of regretting even posting, short chains are what I use summer spring fall winter and have thosands upon thousands of coyotes east and west in them. including wet b`s. they hold the same no matter. the only drawbacks I know is stake pumping- easy fix, cross stake or cable , and the muskrat house effect , again easy fix, don`t set where there is that much crud to pull into the ring. the benefits? less weight, no need for shock springs, faster easier bed and set, no need for such powerful traps as the coyote can`t get a good running lunge, and less damage to animals and feet due to no need for the super powered 4 coil. and no trying to dig badgers out and wasting even more yime- the clock you know, most of us in non gov`t empoy do have a clock. if a normal human can not, or has great dificulty, setting by hand, it`s just too strong and totally un nescesary to hold a coyote. and tc, I have coyotes here that make your western ones look like cream puffs. the only guys I know that use long chains are you, and anyone that has ben thru that brain washing once a week ck course in montana. another plus to short chains and the less power needed that goes with short chains is p.r., no small thing in this day and age. I`ve bit my tongue on many of your posts, but couldn`t let this one go by. one last point, after that coyote has been in a trap overnight, he is plumb run out of fight except the adrenalin spin when you drive up, so any idea they fight harder on extended cks is just not true. I`ve seen them laying there, eyes sunk in, hole dug on one side of the ring to try to get weather protection. they have no fight left. at trhat point a # zero trap would hold them till they died. plus, you know as well as me any summer coyote is dead by 10a.m. the first day if it is in the sun and 80 degrees or more. because he used up all his fight and just over heated and died from heat stroke. mm, thought of another, you`ll say you need long chain to get trap on knee-again, can`t bend over? and if you didn`t use an elephant trap wouldn`t have to put it on your knee. this is my say, so not coming back to a come back or arguing about it. I know what I know and it works great. and the gov`t doesn`t pay for my traps either. and my payck. depends directly on my production and results, so I assure you if I thought long chains were better, I would definitly be using them! I just got done taking off 48 j.c. shock springs and shortening the chains on 4 dozen used traps I aquired. above are the reasons. from many many years and miles and numbers of coyotesd in actua field experience. so your veiws are not the only ones.
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Post by mickm on Jul 6, 2010 6:13:30 GMT -6
Well I will clarify, I said I would loose money on an extended check. Joel said he would go broke on a 24 hour check, which I understand.
Basically, the amount of traps I could get set on my extra days, would not justify the traps I have out of commission on each night.
I do not deal in the large areas that folks have in the far west. I also have thicker furbearers and many more incidentals. There is also the question of domestics and the possibility of thieves, otherwise known as deer hunters.
If I set 40 traps on day A and do a 24 hour check and also get an additional 20 out on day B, I know I will have 60 working traps when I check on day C.
In an extended check situation, I would have 80 traps out on the morning of day C, but how many would be operational?
I never leave a coyote set in the ground for more then 7 days, and rarely leave a cat set in longer. The critters are either there or they ain't. I don't know that extended checks wouldn't work here, but according to the numbers I have kept over the years, I just do not see it being any advantage in numbers. I also do believe it would hurt me with farmer PR etc....I have never trapped where you guys do, but I can certainly see the advantages of extended checks where you are looking at a lot of empty sets each day.
I will also say that the poor coyotes I have here, it just doesn't allow me ever having a pure coyote line in. I really enjoy coyote trapping, but I just can not justify it.
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Post by irnhdmike on Jul 6, 2010 6:15:17 GMT -6
So how long should a short chain be?
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Post by trappnman on Jul 6, 2010 6:32:10 GMT -6
agree 100% with beav and bob- now thats a rarity-
but they are right regarding short chains- their experiences match mine exactly
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 6, 2010 6:33:09 GMT -6
you asking me? imo 8" including at least 2 double swivels. mick, same here, I can out produce on a 24 , over an extended. just that simple- results, mo money mo money.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 6, 2010 9:01:51 GMT -6
p.s., tc I see your 2 toe catch in the hotshot hi dollar trap, in your picture posted above a few posts back. since you say that trap is foolproof, must be operator error. no snow or mud in the pic. so what you do wrong? my guess cover with waaaay too much dirt. that cover 2" deep is another deal some think is needed. nah, just a grain of dirt thick is all you need. I think some folks make too big a deal about the trap and not enough about the technique of the trapper. same reason bmp`s are near worthless, no two trappers operate the same. there is no exact science to trapping. some could abide by every bmp and show 3 leggers by the hundreds. others could do the exact opposite of the bmp recomendations and produce animals essentially damage free, like not even trapped. no way to factor skill level of the trapper into a bmp. why they are a farce. like the coon bmp, I can trap 4 footed coons by the hundreds without chewing, all in non approved traps, yet others can not. so what is the difference in my results and the bmp testers results? you tell me as my answer you would take as an insult when it is not, just the truth.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 8, 2010 19:59:47 GMT -6
Bob speak to the issue at hand that hot shot high dollar trap which locks up kept that toe caught coyote there correct? Think many standard factory traps with zero lock up would have had that coyote sitting there waiting for me? Bob I will answer that with a big NOPE, notta, and NO way! One good pull and he would have been down the road. Again notice with those toes are dead center of the jaws with only one side of operational springs. 20+ years of use and it is the only time I had a sterling get beaten too hard by a coyote.
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