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Post by bluetickkid33 on Jul 2, 2010 21:39:42 GMT -6
Does 4 coiling cause damage or is it the weight of the trap? Some say that it is the power from the 4 coils that causes damage(like on Fox). Is this True???
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 2, 2010 22:14:50 GMT -6
NO need to 4 coil fox traps they just don't fight! Larger traps with more weight can cause some issues, but proper swiveling can help alot as fox are known rollers specially grays.
Goes back to having the proper offset for the species as well.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 3, 2010 4:26:31 GMT -6
I use the big traps if trapping snow country like Zagman does. I learned that in Alaska where they use 114 jumps for fox coming up through the snow. I've caught cats in 3-4 inches of dry powder with an uncovered set. I prefer a #4 dogless Monty to a Bridger however. Jakes are fine. Sleepy Creek longsprings are a good snow trap. I know two 30-50 cat year guys that use them. I have a couple and really like them for snow.
Another problem with the big coils is lions. I prefer a catch and release instrument when they are around which is all the time. With that said the smaller ones aren't that hard to hold.
Proper swiveling for cats doesn't always work, they have a way of getting tangled up in the thick brush and trees where they are often taken. lighter traps are easier on them in those situations.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 3, 2010 7:29:04 GMT -6
Larger traps with more weight can cause some issues,
can cause a heck of a lot of issues on fox-
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 3, 2010 10:13:47 GMT -6
blue tick if you have a 50-50 mix of fox and coyotes I would look at the #2 bridger offset laminated and base plated. With proper guiding this would be a good compramise trap for both fox and coyotes.
Another good one would be the MB 550 with the wide cast jaws would work for both as well. you can 4 coil some and see what you think, don't go with too much power.
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Post by mickm on Jul 3, 2010 12:29:35 GMT -6
Here is my stick, TC39, I'm gonna poke ya. Just warning ya! I would use the Duke 1 3/4 where you are at bluetick , and feel pretty comfortable with it. Stock Bridger #2 would be a good one, as well.If you are using a 24 hour check, I see no reason for you to baseplate, laminate or pluminate your traps. ;D If you were doing 48+ hour checks or setting traps 365 days a year, ya might need the extra stuff. if you were setting for $75 coyotes, you could at least validate it. But since ya ain't. And, since you are just beginning, ( I am guessing), I see no reason for you to spend money that you don't need to. Heck, myself and a lot of other folks don't, and I began a long time ago. I wouldn't strip stuff off that you have, I would just try to set for coyotes with the heavier, more violent traps.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 3, 2010 13:00:13 GMT -6
Mick I look at this way many kids teenagers these days spend 300-400 on a gaming system and games and add ons, or buy 300.00 snow boards and lift passes each winter. So why not buy good stuff from the get go in trapping? They will last a long time and you won't have to upgrade thru the years???
For kids getting into trapping it isn't about what retrun they get from it in cash terms anymore, the fur market is not near what it was and needs to be looked at as something to do outdoors besides now boarding, or sitting inside all day play playstation 3 etc.
I get your point buy what you can afford, but even as a teenager mowing lawns for trap money, helping with concrete work all of it went to traps. I wish I would have had less of them and better quaility than 100 1.75 victors which as I grew older and wiser LOL, I sold off to obtain better equipment with anyhow. Long before ADC. I saw them as an investment and man did I like the results when I started to buy high end traps, I found myself with more confidance, higher catch rates and more overall satisfaction.
No teenager in this day and age can dream about the big fur check, those days are gone for the most paret unless you have high end cats or hit the rat market at just the right time every 10 years LOL.
You make some valid points but I just can't tell this kid to go buy 1.75 dukes cause in 10 years or less he will see the light too!!!!!
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Post by Wright Brothers on Jul 3, 2010 14:09:57 GMT -6
Mick said, and this aint aimed at any one trapper, just a question since I have never been on an extended check line.
"reason for you to baseplate, laminate or pluminate your traps. If you were doing 48+ hour checks or setting traps 365 days a year, ya might need the extra stuff. if you were setting for $75 coyotes, you could at least validate it."
I've read that a lot from folks that say traps don't need work. So do these coyotes or other furbearers fight harder the second or third night? I always thought caught was caught, and he'd be there until something or someone got him.
"caught was caught" Then again most of mine are tricked, and if someone invites me to welding day, the rest will be too.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 3, 2010 15:04:29 GMT -6
Adding time can put more stress on equipment as most coyotes on 24hrs in all reality are there for less than 12 hrs, you add another day or two and equipment will take more abuse also time of year as well for various reasons.
That said, good equipment will never cost you only benefit you IMO.
Also as you add days to a trap check you want to keep those animals as comfortable as possible, even 24 hrs IMO, but less wear and tear on them less likely to lead you into trouble with escapes and the such. This is done by tricking out traps, good swivels, solid traps, proper offset, strong springs and the rest all add up to keeping those coyotes there longer with less stress to them and the equipment and factoring more changing weather conditions on 20 hrs or 30 hrs versus less than 12 hrs of weather change.
Nice offer on the welding wright bro.
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Post by Wright Brothers on Jul 3, 2010 15:37:36 GMT -6
Yeah, I'll trade wax for welding LOL, inside outside joke.
I got people calling me today that want me to trap. Put up 38 fish for coon bait today, Pap gets out of hospital Monday, life is a little better. If I could just sell a few more wax pots LOL.
It may be coming together for my best in recent years. Root for me guys.
Like I said I have no experience with long checks. And a guy like me reads this stuff and thinks, that if he is in there how many ever hours, isn't that the same thing as banging four of them in four nights in the same trap. No matter, musings of an internet trapper, and it's, kinda fun.
I like modified traps, and short checks, in my world, youns may differ and I enjoy reading of it.
Off, to the bait freezer.
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Post by mickm on Jul 3, 2010 15:51:15 GMT -6
Well I have wondered about the extended check, myself. I have read in many statements, that critters do most of their fighting in the first hour they are caught. I don't have a clue myself, if that is true.
I Just can't see the tricked out traps. I honestly can't. I am still setting some of the same coon traps today that I did in highschool , over 20 years ago. Their only difference is new springs, chain and swivels here and there.
I just can not justify the need for the high dollar traps. I have never personally saw the need for them. yes, I have missed, or lost a few coyotes. A very high percentage of them were due to my mistakes, not the traps though. I honestly think that more gear is invented to catch trappers, then to catch critters.
I have read your posts TC39, and it is obvious that you believe you need the heavy metal. lets just say , that I believe just as strongly that I don't.
Everyone should set what they feel comfortable with.
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Post by bender on Jul 3, 2010 17:04:32 GMT -6
ive got about the same weather as bluetickkid also....also had some 4 coiled modded bridgers, and removed the 2 springs to make them 2 coil modded bridgers. the 4 coiling did NOT work with the fox. replaced the swivels with MBs, and added an additional on each trap...it didnt help.
im not really convinced that a 4 coiled trap is any more effort to keep working in these conditions, than a 2 coiled.
just my observations.
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Post by calvin on Jul 3, 2010 17:10:28 GMT -6
I/ve compared the Duke 1.75 against the Bridger #2s and found less damage with the bridgers...Even on the 4 coiled laminated OS. Let a couple grey fox go last year (Talking two.....very few here anymore) out of the Bridger #2s with very little visual damage...even on the 4 coiled. My Bridgers are staying on my k-9 line and the Dukes will be phased out into the water coon line. But yes, the Dukes do hold them well...just more cutting it seemed.
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Post by TurTLe on Jul 3, 2010 17:25:34 GMT -6
I think it all depends on where people live. I like using stronger heavier traps here in Kansas where we get rain, snow, sleet, freezing, etc.
I wouldn't use those same traps in Arizona where I trap. A #2 bridger is brutal on those Arizona grey fox and kit fox. Down there, I use laminated Northwoods 1.75's and smaller. Plenty strong for coyotes, and not so big and over powered to damage a kit fox.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 3, 2010 17:40:36 GMT -6
without a doubt- cold mud slows a trap down to where I could pull back in time- In adverse conditions 4 coiling would be the way to go
and if you are going to laminate- and if for coyotes only I wouldn't bother but enough fox now to make it something I need to do and I have no doubt 4 coiling will give me another coyote or two I would lose 2 coiled- I think you need to 4 coil, to offset the decreased speed that that laminations would have. doubled jaws and laminations, to my mind, slow down a trap coming through dirt- 4 coils would offset that concern
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Post by bluetickkid33 on Jul 3, 2010 17:57:10 GMT -6
Like alot of you have said... I buy the best traps i can afford. That is why i have 81 bridger #2 mods...some 4 coiled and some not.. 12 mb550s and 6 kb5.5s.... After this season i will only buy one of these kinds of traps. I appreciate all of the responses and hope to see more since there is no such thing as TO MUCH KNOWLEDGE..Especially in trapping...Keep it comeing this is a great thread and i appreciate the time yall put into ur posts
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 3, 2010 20:00:53 GMT -6
Bluetick you sound like you have it covered well on your trap selection.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 4, 2010 7:41:08 GMT -6
so $204 a doz on mbs 4 coiled, and $140 a doz for bridger 4 coils or $98 for duke
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Post by thebeav2 on Jul 4, 2010 8:44:12 GMT -6
And the beauty of It all Is the critter can't read brand names. If and when I trap in BAD conditions I go to my WAXED DIRT 2 coiled traps have no problem coming up through this type of covering.
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Post by Zagman on Jul 5, 2010 8:51:48 GMT -6
Beav, didn't you say you only trap canines, at least recentlly, in the south?
Sorry man......apples......oranges.
MZ
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