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Post by trap4life on May 30, 2010 9:41:22 GMT -6
Ive been seriously thinking about buying the mb 550s, but i want some opinions on offset jaws first, anyone like them? anyone dont?
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Post by ohiyotee on May 30, 2010 9:56:36 GMT -6
depends on the use
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Post by trap4life on May 30, 2010 10:16:14 GMT -6
Mainyl for yotes/cats and fox more greys than reds
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Post by jbconnected on May 30, 2010 11:35:58 GMT -6
I believe that offset is mostly important on nontarget catches (smaller animals) with larger traps.
I have offsets on most of my land traps, & none of my water traps. But, if I am using the right size trap for the animal I am starting to believe that lamination is more important than offset.
FWIW.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on May 30, 2010 14:58:51 GMT -6
offsets for coyotes and cats has advantages and I see no disadvantage to them.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on May 30, 2010 15:17:42 GMT -6
Off set means nothing until the animals foot is compressed o the point where the jaws come together and touch.
Probably has some effect on toe catches but I don't see how it affects a full foot catch unless the offset is enough for the foot to compress all the way.
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Post by humptulips on May 31, 2010 13:02:44 GMT -6
Off set means nothing until the animals foot is compressed o the point where the jaws come together and touch. Probably has some effect on toe catches but I don't see how it affects a full foot catch unless the offset is enough for the foot to compress all the way. I agree. I don't like offsets either water or land sets. Lose you fur due to toe catch loss IMHO.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on May 31, 2010 14:53:54 GMT -6
Offest do not cost toe caught critters in my years of using them! This is a sterling trap with one of the wider offsets made and this is a 3 day check and 2 toes on a longer chain. The benfit is the levers ride up higher be it toed or pad catches they lock up and have more holding power, same with cats I have no issues with holding cats in offset traps. If you remove some jaw then the foot has more room between them allowing the levers to go higher, it is either metal or foot, foot conforms more than more steel in the jaw.
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Post by trappnman on May 31, 2010 18:54:00 GMT -6
well, you wouldn't have pictures of the ones you lost.....................
you will lose coon from toe caught w/offsets- unless I guess like that 3/32 which is no offset at all- a toe is wider than that!
I agree with the thought that offsets come into play about 1/100 of a time- the only advantage I can see, is you will get less toes, and more coyotes with offsets- but again, you shouldn't BE getting toe catches, should you 1080?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 1, 2010 4:33:02 GMT -6
The point is I have caught enough toe coyotes to know offsets have no disadvantage as some claim. They have advantages over reg jaw traps, but to see them one needs to look past some of the claims like offsets will cost you coyotes and bobcats..... Toe catches are not the norm as I like many use pan tension, but they do happen and when they do, I see them in these trap types far more than not.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 1, 2010 5:36:42 GMT -6
I like a wide offset. We have to have 3/16 but I go bigger.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 1, 2010 5:59:54 GMT -6
I run about 75% offsets on the montanas-
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Post by Zagman on Jun 1, 2010 6:30:02 GMT -6
Steve If you see little advantage in them (1/100th of the time) and you take a lot of coons in your coyotes sets and you feel offsets lose coons...... ....why do you run 75% offsets? Seems conflicting? I dont own a coyote trap that is not offset....I drank the Koolaid and believe in them 1000%. Like 1080's video, I have TONS of pics just like that. I have seen it enough (toe caught and still there) that I am convinced. Even my Jakes are offset......with the rubbers filling in that gap. This is one of my favorites.....bank set, long chain, shockspring, swivels, one toe......dead coyote. Do I want toe catches? No, but they do happen. Part of life and coyote trapping. Dont see how you can avoid it, ever. But when it does happen, I want the right equipment and mods to hang on to him. To quote Tom Krause: "Gosh, I give myself a chance!" Zagman
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Post by trappnman on Jun 1, 2010 6:54:03 GMT -6
why do I run offsets? 2 reasons-
1) I was told how animal friendly they are- 2) I was told they increase a few toe catches each year-
1) not true in itself- offsets are a myth, in my opinion, insofar as providing any of the things popular opinion says they do. in 99% of the cases, the offset, as one would think it would not, never comes into play.
2) I do find this true- that is, I take a couple coyotes a year, held by 1 toe in the offsets whereas when I ran 100% reg jaw, I'd get 2-3 times with 1 toe in trap. but also kept some by one toe as well.
so in that aspect, they are better- but on the other hand, I do get a few snapped traps with no hair, no catch circle from coyotes- would those be ones lost because of offsets? and i any case- wouldn;t laminations, since that toe catch would now be also a pad catch, eliminate the need for that offset.
I don't know- but its certainly not black and white on my line. I could as well, go back and find a bunch of pics of coyotes with 1 toe in reg traps, but it would prove nothing either way.
Are offsets better? I don't know. Which is why I use both.
As far as coon, a non issue in #3 traps w/offsets- the offset never comes into play with that deep a trap on coon.
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Post by CoonDuke on Jun 1, 2010 8:37:25 GMT -6
Full paw catch in a Duke #3 with a wimpy 3/16" offset. Notice the lever height. A coyote paw compresses more than most realize!
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Post by trappnman on Jun 1, 2010 10:27:18 GMT -6
I learn something new everyday....................a coyotes foot width, is only 1/4 to 5/16s...............
power is going to be power- crushing power or otherwise but until a coyotes foot is smaller than the offset, it doesn't come into play as being "animal freindly". It mighht wel lcome into play for other reasons- but abating crusihng power isn't one of them-
oh wait..........you ain't telling me you are another puppy trapper........? I mean come on 1080- opinions are one thing, laws of physics are another.........
Seriously, I have nothing against offsets, they look nice ot show farmers, but there is no way, no how, that anyone can convince me, that putting a 2 inch foot into a 1/4 inch offset, releases ANY pressure
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Post by Zagman on Jun 1, 2010 10:48:52 GMT -6
on a full pad catch, you do get increased leverage (higer levers) with MILLED offsets, where the offset is "cut" out of the jaws. Albeit a small amount, the levers DO raise a little higher in that case.
This does NOT apply when using lugged offsets. The offset does not come into play until the lugs touch on a production trap with a lugged or bead welded offset on regular jaws.
If you look at the pics I posted, in every case, the levers are UP and locked. That offset is cradling that one toe without "crushing" or breaking the bone like a regular jawed trap could.
Throw in laminations (less cutting with the broader jaw face), good swiveling, and a shock spring for good measure, and those traps have a real good chance of hanging onto those poorly caught coyotes. IMO.......of course.
Zagman
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Post by trappnman on Jun 1, 2010 11:06:22 GMT -6
and I agree with all of the above-
but that wasn't my point-
my question was, is a full foot catch, "friendlier" to a coyote with an offset, or is the pressure o nthe foot, the same as a reg jaw?
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Post by Stef on Jun 1, 2010 11:18:44 GMT -6
With a real factory offset, the levers come up higher. That's the only difference I can see on a high foot catch. But traps will all "locked" at foot pads or toe pads. Any jaw traps will slip on the leg until it reaches a pad with stronger animals like a coyote caught in a trap
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Post by Zagman on Jun 1, 2010 11:25:08 GMT -6
the original, milled, narrow offsets......I'd say NO.
On powered up, custom offsets like the Canadian Jaws have, or the wide, smooth jaws that come with Cast Jaws or rubber jaws where one gets complete lockup and compression.....I'd say yes.
With full lockup and compression on custom (wider) offsets, the fact that the jaws finally come into contact and cannot go any further simply HAS to be better (i.e. more comfortable) than a trap that wants to keep closing, and with cutting, extended checks, hard fighting coyotes, could cause more problems.
With full disclosure, I certainly am guilty of selling the animal comfort piece to farmers and non-trappers, knowing in my heart hearts that this is not really the reason I use them.
If you really want to get their attention, show them an offset traps with rubber jaws. That really gets them to cream their jeans........ might even send you home with their daughter.
MZ
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