school me on howling

[RiverRat]

I admit I have never really been "into" calling with the down fur market I am gonna play around with some song dogs this yr. I have had plenty of lucky with rabbit sounds before after locating them with a old police siren in the early AM. So what am I missing out on with this howling business ??

All I have ever used is a old make that ancient olt adjustable rabbit screamer and a standard critter call , for the life of me I cant get a decent howl outa it. I come close but no real quality howls only whines and whimpers. Do I need to bump up to a Song Dog criter call or get different call for howling ??

THANKS !!

[lb]

Yes, you would do better with a call dedicated to howling. Like an ELK power howler. Just look around. Many decent howlers on the market, easy to use. The harder part is knowing what type of howl to use, so you should (probably) use the less agressive ones, for starters. Look it up, this information is readily available all over the 'net.

[swdawg]

I agree with the advice given by lb.It is very important to understand and use the proper coyote vocalizations.Using the wrong howls are counterproductive.There are several howling vocalizations,some good,some bad.The coyote is saying different things with these different howls.You don't want to put your foot in your mouth so to speak.

Lots of good howlers on the market.As far as that goes though,you should be able to make very good hows using the critter call.I have a howler or two that I use but occassionally forget them in the truck and have used the critter call around my neck as a howler.

Get a video or cassette or whatever and listen to the right howls and understand them.It will make you a better caller just knowing what the coyote is saying.

Good Luck.

[17HMR]

What vid do you think would be the best for this?

[RiverRat]

Oct 20, 2009 7:35:32 GMT -6 17HMR said:

What vid do you think would be the best for this?

2nd this

[trappincoyotes39]

Bill austins CD will give you what your looking for. I believe Randy Anderson now controls the rights??? You can buy the calls and CD at allpredatorcalls.com. AS mentioned younger coyote lone howls, challange howls and pup in distress should serve you well for the most part and times of the year. Alot of holwers to choose from as mentioned by the others but allpredcalls will have you covered. from cheaper versions to high dollar and all in between, as mentioned as well a standard critter call should do nice coyote vocals for you.

Portray something that will make those coyotes come investigate. female howls durring mating season, young coyote howls and distress sounds in the fall time, will make those older coyotes come for a look see and maybe kick his butt out of the area. They don't want jr stealing from the grocery store in "their" area.

[lb]

I would add that making howls is better than not howling because of worry you are using the right one. If you don't know what you are doing, you still learn something by the coyote's lack of response or his vocal replies while still not approaching your location. Screw with them, walk him up, see if he still holds his ground, etc. One thing to be aware of is if a vocal coyote is scolding or carrying on a conversation and suddenly goes silient, he has perhaps decided to come in so in addition to watching from the direction he responded, start watching your downwind. You have to test the waters and accept that you will make some mistakes.

[trappincoyotes39]

great addition LB. I notice the same thing with some being totally silent coyotes as well. Meaning I know they are "there" and get no vocal response and minutes later here comes "A" coyote or pair of coyotes in total silence.

[17HMR]

The last 3 posts prove to me, the more I learn the less I know, great posts guys and thanks!

[lb]

Attempting to be clear. Some coyotes, they may be comfortable exchanging vocalizations with you for a considerable length of time. In just about every case, they are hidden from view, and this is intentional.

The idea is not to become complacent when the coyote quits responding. It is my personal belief, (and there are those that disagree) that a suddenly silient coyote has decided to circle downwind, still out of sight. Understand that this can take some time; for decisions, and additional time to complete the encirclement. They always go the shortest way downwind, meaning 170 degrees, and never 200 degrees, so be very aware of the wind direction. If you can move silently, sometimes it's not a bad idea to move a bit downwind or crosswind. You can sometimes initiate this circling movement by going silent before he does. Really messes with their mind because now he thinks "you" are the circling coyote. All speculation, but the important message is that a coyote is more easily suckered when he thinks another coyote is in close proximity.

[lb]

Now, who has pondered the reason why a coyote won't go the long way around?

Give up?

It's because if he did so, he would first, be crossing the wind and allowing you to scent him. Just think about it a bit.

[trappnman]

I was pondering it- but you didn't give me time to think! LOL

how did you come up with the angles?

[trappincoyotes39]

Great points LB and using an e caller and position of that caller knowing they are going to make that arc puts many of them in your lap. A guy can about pin point the place where they will come to. Not all the time but alot of the time. Where minimial or no movement of the rifle is needed. Those are perfect setups to me. Just raise the stock and bang.

[lb]

It's based on a lifetime of observation. People always think; Yeah well, night hunting, snore.

But, an experienced night hunter knows, because you see the eyes AND they (the coyotes) don't know that you can see them. After seeing thousands of coyotes circle down wind, I know, with absolute certainty, which way they are coming. UNLESS he takes a direct approach for most of the distance, but at some point they usually remember to check the wind, even if it's too late.

Take this to the bank; They always go the short way, because I said so. They know where the sound is coming from, they know where the wind is blowing and they have an instinct in knowing the best way to get downwind of the sound, whatever it is, distress or coyote vocalization.

They also know when the wind is calm that they don't have to bother circling, and then, they don't. Same thing with variable wind. They know the wind is shifting and they don't chase it all over the map. This calls for a direct approach, or no approach, at all.

But, in trying to avoid the always/never trap, let me say this; there is usually wind and when there is a prevailing wind, a coyote knows instinctually exactly how to get downwind of something of interest. They invariably take a 170 degree direction, rather than one that would be 190 degrees.

If it's exactly 180 degrees, I am as baffled as anyone else. lol

[trappnman]

Im not "debating" only trying to get this in my head-

I read advice all the time here and there, to always be watching behind you, as they will circle-

am I misunderstanding this, and is your 170 in effect "circling"?

[lb]

that's correct. The point is, which way are they going to go to get behind you? Commonly called circling downwind. They will go the shortest way, what I am describing as an arc of 170 degrees or less. They never go the long way.

This is pretty simple to understand. Let us say that YOU are in the middle, and the coyote is at 11:30 and the wind is blowing from 1:00 to 7:00. Your coyote will approach in a counterclockwise direction, moving from11:30 to 7:00. He may be closer than when you first saw him, or he may be further out; I cannot predict that.

If your coyote is @ your 1:00 position and the wind is blowing to 5:00, this coyote will run in a clockwise direction, to exactly 5:00.

See, in the second example, if he were to move the other way, counterclockwise, when he got to 11:00, and the wind is from 11:00 to 5:00, with you right in line, (and if you were a coyote), you would smell him and he doesn't want that, so he never goes that way.

This is my own theory, I have no studies to back it up besides my word and reputation.

[SteveCraig]

You boys just heard from one of the masters on this subject. Take it to the bank what Leonard just posted. You will not get this info from a video, or a book, unless Len writes one.

What Leonard posted can be used on every single stand to your own advantage. And just about anywhere in this country too.I and others have been doing it this way for many years. Just some minor adjustments is all that is needed to adjust to your particular area.

You will find that locating a family group, then setting up to take advantage of this trait, will give you the one up on the average caller.
Thanks Leonard,

[trappnman]

I agree steve- and the kudos go to you as well

[snowcamoman]

LB,
That was the easist to understand and clear definition of how Coyotes circle that I've ever read. Thanks for sharing that one, I'll be sure to think about that on my stands more and how to better setup to take advantage of that trait.

[LKVL]

Oct 22, 2009 14:27:56 GMT -6 lb said:

Now, who has pondered the reason why a coyote won't go the long way around?

Give up?

It's because if he did so, he would first, be crossing the wind and allowing you to scent him. Just think about it a bit.

Just had perfect example of this the other night while calling.The set up was that at 12:00 was a trail the coyotes were using to enter an open area. 11:00 was my shop.10:00 was my house.9:00 was an opening to enter the field from the east. I started with some howls and waited about ten minutes. Started whining on the ap-6.........nothing.Started on the weems call......Nothing. Now since I trapped one early that morning in that area I figured theres a good chance that they would still be in the area and that I had to have the patience of a deer hunter and wait them out. Anyways no luck with calls so I decided to do a challenge call. Coyote responded. It sounded like he was on the other side of the shop. The wind was blow from west. For the coyote to circle down wind would have meant that he was going to have to expose himself. He did not seem to want do that. Because of the layout of the area his only way to come in would have been on the up wind side. He didn't want do that either. We had a nice chat but since I was running out of light I had to call it quits.

Interesting thing about this coyote. Since he opened up when I did the challenge...........He became extremely vocal. I was skinning in the shop for about 2 hours and all while I was out there he kept howling. At 10:00 p.m. he was still at it. We woke about 3:00 a.m. and he was still at it. Only this time he had a partner.