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Post by mat on Oct 21, 2007 2:41:14 GMT -6
i have a restless mind and thought i would share some thoughts on calling with a shotgun.
1. the gun itself i dont feel matters, it is more what shell/choke combo you use. i have run over/unders, pumps, and autos in all different barrel leignts and have found the 28 inch barrel to be the best for me.
2. chokes are in my mind the most important aspect of the setup i have had great success with a standard modified choke, BUT i also love the patternmaster choke and that is what i shoot. i have used the new carlson dead coyote choke with limited sucess i cannot get it to patter worth a crap out of my gun with any loads.
3. the shell its self is a much debated topic. i personaly use a 3 inch fedral copper coated BB for my first shot followed with 3, 3" fedral 4 buck. i have had limited sucess with the 2 3/4 4 buck in pattern tests out to forty yards. also the 2 3/4 BB's dont seem to shoot as well for me. i have used the new non toxic shells with great sucess but not great enough to justify the extra cost. if you dont shoot much i would recomend the hevi shot 3" BB's over the T shot, the BB's pattern much better for me.
and last but not least, a shotgun will NEVER be a 70 yard coyote killer no matter what some ad's claim. but if you spend some time and money working out a choke/shell combo you will have a great coyote tool.
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Post by redsnow on Oct 21, 2007 7:09:18 GMT -6
i haven't been able to find a box of 3" Federal BB's for 5 years. still have a few, i liked WW 3" BB's too., can't find them either. i can get loads of T, TTT,, and all kinds of small buckshot, most of it comes in 5 rnd boxes, expensive too. don't remember the exact size of my choke tube, it's a "extra full turkey choke", i have a BPS 3.5", nice goose gun, but handles like 2"X4", like my 870 better, quicker on target.
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Post by SteveCraig on Oct 21, 2007 7:30:46 GMT -6
Mat, About what I have found and prefer. If you look at the amount of powder on a 2 3/4 #4 buck, you will see it is the same as the 3 inch. Just more velocity from the 2 3/4 inch. Mine shoots well with a full choke, but i have to use the Mod on the T shot Heavy stuff.
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Post by FWS on Oct 21, 2007 9:52:26 GMT -6
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Post by markymark on Oct 21, 2007 10:31:10 GMT -6
Buck run has some very good prices able has a large selection of ammo as J&S www.bucksrunsports.comwww.ableammo.comwww.bargainammunition.comIf you want the best choke here you go. You will need a Bore Mic since they will make your chokes to your bore. The problem with off the shelf chokes if they are one size fits all. It creates a jug in the choke but it is to short to be called jugging. Your best patterns will be from a fixed long choke or an after market choke with taylored loads. I am also not talking about shooting 1 load and saying there it's a good pattern. You'll need to shoot many patterns to find out what a gun is doing. Everyone and the brother is making chokes today in the one size fits all bore. The best full choke patterns I ever shot was out of a krieghoff 32 Ulm Full and Full. Those chokes were 7" long jugged. It also hit the scale at about 8.5 pounds soft gun to shoot but a club to carry. www.teaguechokes.co.uk
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richc
Demoman...
Posts: 243
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Post by richc on Oct 21, 2007 12:58:16 GMT -6
I shoot a 12 gauge Browning BPS "Game Gun". My best combo for coyotes to date has been 2&3/4" Winchester XX magnum BB's thru a Hastings .655 card shooter choke tube. The 2&3/4" fodder was harder to find, so usually end up with the 3 incher's. Both are good on coyotes out to 45 yards. I have a Kick's Buck Kicker XX full choke tube for buckshot loads, but haven't found anything better than copper plated and buffered BB's as of yet. I ordered a Carlson "Dead coyote" tube the other day, and I bought two boxes of "Dead coyote" fodder to try. I hope to test this combo on paper next week. Ya know guys, I have read quite a few statements which sing the praises of Patternmaster tubes. I bought one once, and it patterned exactly like a standard "modified" tube. I think the Patternmaster is a rip off.
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Post by Furhvstr on Oct 21, 2007 18:47:40 GMT -6
FWS, At the end of last season I told myself by this season I would have put together what I needed to make 3.5 inch plated 12 gauge. Federal still makes the 3 inch cop plated and I use them about a box a year. Would you be able to get many more bb's in a 3.5? In other words would a gun be able to handle much more than a 3 inch bb load? Don't know much about shotshell reloading.
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Post by FWS on Oct 21, 2007 19:40:20 GMT -6
I don't load 3.5" shells but looking at the data I see 2 1/4 oz. loads listed and 2 oz. loads at higher velocities than 3".
I'd think a 2 1/4 oz. load of nickel plated BB would be a deadly mofo.
BPI has lead buckshot in BBB and T.
Be interesting to see what patterns a guy could get with 2 1/4 oz. of either. Hevi-Shot's Dead Coyote load is T shot.
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richc
Demoman...
Posts: 243
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Post by richc on Oct 22, 2007 8:14:51 GMT -6
Furhvstr (Mercer Lawing), In my experience, the three inch lead fodder throws a better pattern than the 3 & 1/2" stuff. With the new hevi shot it may well be a different story though.
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Post by redsnow on Oct 22, 2007 19:54:39 GMT -6
I always did like WW, XX mags, a good shell, like FEderals better, now. I have a mec 600, just a pain in the but to switch from 3/4's to 3" ammo. I've loaded some heavy loads, in a 2 3/4" case, knock a feller sideways, blow the target over ( ), etc. big shot is hard to find. Anymore, I try to setup, where everything in sight is in range, it's tense, never know when something is coming. but most of the time I hunt with my rifle, honestly, a guy here in the east would be better off with a good shotgun, out to 40 yards, a good choke, heavy shot will take most if I do my part. I'll tell you, the 3.5 BPS I have, it's a nice gun, kills on both ends, I just don't like the way it handles. From the boat it's a dream, drag that sob around the mountains all day long, it outta have a wheel on one end. lol.
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Post by FWS on Oct 22, 2007 20:16:54 GMT -6
Keep checking Ebay or one of the gun auction sites for a Ponsness Warren 375. I see them for $100-150. 3" or 3 1/2" conversion is easy with them and each shell comes out perfect. Nice thing too is they hold their value and you can usually seel it for what you paid for it. Ballistics Products Inc.Anything you'll ever need to load shotshells, all kinds of shot, specialty wads, new hulls in all lengths, good manuals, etc. ;D With my steel loads I'm actually using a roll crimp with a disc over the shot. 1 1/8 oz. of steel 3's at 1700 fps smokes ducks ;D
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richc
Demoman...
Posts: 243
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Post by richc on Oct 25, 2007 11:34:13 GMT -6
Well, the Carlson "Dead coyote" tube seems to show a bit of an over choke condition with MY gun. I could see somewhat of a "donut" hole in center of pattern. The "Dead coyote" tube is marked .660, but remember that my gun takes the regular "invector" chokes, so your gun may well have a different size bore. I switched to a "Kicks" BuckKicker X-full tube which is a .690. This choke with the Hevi shot "dead coyote" fodder punched 10 of the big T shot into a 5" circle at fifty yards. Now that ain't bad, and would kill a lot of coyotes but I want to try another test. I picked up one of Carlson's extended tubes which is made for steel shot, and is a .700 I.D. We will soon know the results.
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Post by markymark on Oct 25, 2007 20:19:29 GMT -6
Try a mod choke. I patterned a Benelli M2 3" mag the other day with 4 shot. Seminole extended light mod choke gave me the best patterns at 50 yards. 1.5 oz payload. That comfort tech stock works but not as soft shooting a Beretta gas pipe 391. I bought another barrel for the Benelli and it's on it's way to Seminole to get a longer forcing cone job and longer chokes.
The best patterns I got was with a 1.25oz payload 2 3/4" shell at 1462fps average. These were all handloads.
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richc
Demoman...
Posts: 243
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Post by richc on Oct 26, 2007 16:06:35 GMT -6
Marky Mark, Are you speaking of #4 Buck, or did you mean #4 Birdshot? I screwed a Briley compensated "modified" tube in and tried it at 40 yards. Not very good, so I took it off and screwed the BuckKicker tube back in. With the chokes I have tried, the "Dead Coyote" fodder looks like it is only gonna be about five yards advantage over copper plated BB's or #4 BUCK. I may take a look at those Seminole chokes you mentioned if I can find em.
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richc
Demoman...
Posts: 243
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Post by richc on Oct 30, 2007 18:54:20 GMT -6
Well, I tried the modified choke like someone suggested but that was a real big flop. I also tried that Carlson .700 choke tube which was another flop. Today the mail lady delivered a new .680 tube from Brownell's. This shotgun testing is getting expensive now. I hope to get out tomorrow and try the Dead coyote fodder through a .680 tube. Wish me luck. I was over on the Federal ammo site, and I see they still make the 3" buffered magnum fodder with 1&7/8 ounces of lead BB shot. I couldn't find any of that stuff out at Bass Pro today, so picked up another box of "Dead Coyote". Wow! These ammo companies think that us coyote callers are rich like the duck hunters or something. ;D
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Post by turbines on Oct 31, 2007 2:06:22 GMT -6
Yea Rich, the 3.5" ones are over $3 a pop! The Chinese are buying up all of the world market tungsten, along with all the cement that we can make. My remington 870 with the remington full choke tube that came with it does pretty good out to about 45 yds
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richc
Demoman...
Posts: 243
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Post by richc on Oct 31, 2007 10:15:48 GMT -6
Results with the new Colonial .680 tube were negative. I screwed the Kicks .690 tube back on and here is the 50 yard result with "Dead coyote" fodder in the 3" version. My patterns seem to be off center to the left a little, but I can adjust my iron sights for that.
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Post by markymark on Nov 4, 2007 6:55:46 GMT -6
I was referring to Hevi-Shot, it wold be best to shoot your patterns at a larger target to see how the whole pattern is. A steel plate is what I use, it's an old highway sign. I paint it white with a roller then make a spot in the middle with spray paint to aim at. I shoot, take a pic and then roll it with the paint again.
You mentioned you have sights on your gun, how long is that barrel? Stated also that your gun is not shooting on the aiming point of impact. How's the pattern where the point of impact is?
Finding a load your gun thrives on is sometimes trail and error working with several chokes and loads. Have you tried a smaller payload yet. Like a 1 1/4oz?
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richc
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Posts: 243
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Post by richc on Nov 4, 2007 16:55:15 GMT -6
Marky Mark, I use either cardboard or large square of wrapping paper for patterning. The center of above pie plate was my target, I staple the paper plate to the patterning board. The size T hevi shot is only giving me an extra 5 yards or so over my old load of copper plated and buffered lead BB's right now.
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Post by lb on Nov 5, 2007 20:46:12 GMT -6
Me, meeting for the first time, and having lunch with Rich Cronk. In Omaha, 9-10-07
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