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Post by slingshot4561 on Aug 15, 2007 9:48:18 GMT -6
akona 20 I would like to invite you to nebraska for an old fashun barrel burning prairie dog shoot. Im no expert, calm days are as scarce as a yetti. we have great fun and we do kill prairie dogs at500 and beyond with 223s. as far as consistant if I could hit them all every time Id take up golf.
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Post by markymark on Aug 15, 2007 18:44:05 GMT -6
.224s and long bullets don't kill very well at 500 yards. Yep
What if you had a 22-250 with a 30 inch barrel 1x9 twist shooting 70gr vld's? You don't think that would be a 500 yarder. How about a 224 catbird or jaybird?? My pet rifle is a 224x284 put together by Jim Greenwalt topped with a Night Force 12x42 talk about red mist.
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Post by lb on Aug 15, 2007 21:58:43 GMT -6
I'm talking about coyotes that run to parts unknown; not dinking around with prairie dogs, etc. Let me break it to you gently, those type bullets don't expand (reliably) at that range. 224x284? Nightforce? A sorry rig for long range coyotes
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Post by qwagoner on Aug 15, 2007 22:04:50 GMT -6
If it were “easy” then everyone would be doing it. Can a 22-center fire kill coyotes at 500 yards? Yes of course they can. Putting the bullet on target is where it gets tricky. In my country it is usually a one shot cold bore affair like it or not. You just can’t walk bullets into coyotes like you do prairie dogs.
The problem with coyotes is that they are too tuff for their own good. The best-suited bullets for accurate shooting at that distance are generally not the best performers on the “terminal” end of things. It is a trade off. In my experience I opt for a better performing bullet on game and give up an external ballistic advantage meaning usually a higher ballistic coefficients. It is hard to get both in the same package. I can’t control any of the environmental parameters that may affect my bullets flight but I can and do capitalize on good conditions when the opportunity arises.
Easy? No! Doable? Yes!
Good hunting.
Q,
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Post by lb on Aug 16, 2007 11:17:16 GMT -6
Hi Quinton. Where you been?
You are really saying what I generally believe about coyotes and dumping them (when necessary) at extended range. A VLD bullet has advantages, and disadvantages. I don't like to take a shot and see a coyote roll around, get up and run off, so I use a more conventional hunting bullet. For the same reasons you do. It's not that killing a coyote at 500 yards is not doable, it is getting the job done, and you have a dead coyote at the end of your hike, without looking all over, hither and yon.
Forgetting about wind and drop and just being able to make a lethal hit, we also need to feel confident that we will not just be wasting a bullet and burning daylight searching for an animal that could be a half a mile away by the time we walk that ¼ mile to where we last saw him.
I learned these things night hunting. There is nothing as discouraging as walking out with a flashlight to a spot that is not well marked in the first place, and then trying to follow blood drops in the gravel from a bullet that zips through the animal without causing enough trauma to incapacitate it. It's not worth it.
Therfore, I don't like arguing with myself about things I have known for a long time, with someone insisting that sh*t is peanut butter. YEP
No Africa this year? Good hunting. LB
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Post by qwagoner on Aug 16, 2007 20:54:44 GMT -6
You made a good point about “when necessary” Leonard. I love long range shooting don’t get me wrong but when it comes to coyotes I am not a sport hunter. I am a pot hunter so to speak. If I found my self shooting at very many 500 yard coyotes I would step back and evaluate my hunting strategy to see what I was doing WRONG.
You and I have a near spot on mach on what we want out of a coyote rifle so there is no need to preach to the quire. LOL But if you step up to a 6mm or even a .25 caliber there is a better selection of bullets that will out perform any of the .224s that I am aware of on coyotes at 500 yards and beyond. Namely the .243 cal 87gr V-max and the .257 75gr V-max. By going up in weight with caliber you can increase your BC and maintain the rapid expansion like what you would expect out of say a 50gr Ballistic Tip at shorter ranges.
Everything is a trade off. A good example would be the 75gr 22 cal VLD Berger verses the 75 grain .257 V-max. Say you are pushing your 75gr Bergers out of a 22-6mm or what ever at 3400fps and you are shooting the 75gr V-max out of your 25-06 AI at 3800fps. All things being equal the drop will be nearly the same at 500 yards but the little 22 has a considerable wind bucking advantage at that range because of the much higher BC. Its advantage in that area is its Achilles heel in the terminal ballistics department. A long bullet like that requires an 8 or 9 twist so with that velocity coupled with those kind of RPMs the bullet needs to be tuff to stay together. The “tuffness” of the bullets is it’s downfall.
The trade off is a bullet with superior external ballistics, meaning it should be easier to hit what your aiming at Verses a bullet with superior terminal effects that may be more difficult to put on target. Depending on how you want to look at it, it is a toss up.
Well enough yapping. LOL No Leonard no Africa this year. I may go this coming March or July though. Maybe both? I have a couple of buddies that want to go but they won’t be able to make the trip until July. Jackal hunting is better in March so I know when “I” want to go! LOL
Good hunting.
Q,
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