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Post by bobwendt on Oct 20, 2008 11:11:10 GMT -6
pin holes have been around at least since I was a kid, probably before spencer was born. liker al gore inventinmg the internet, uh uh!
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Ernie
Tenderfoot...
Posts: 8
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Post by Ernie on Oct 20, 2008 11:15:27 GMT -6
Not saying that he invented them. Just was the first i read about them. everything I read about before was dirt hole, flats and post sets. Ernie
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Oct 20, 2008 13:30:00 GMT -6
What is a post set? A trap set up against a post? I think that is the idea I have gotten from reading books and articles?
Joel
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Post by PAskinner on Oct 20, 2008 13:54:53 GMT -6
What is a post set? A trap set up against a post? I think that is the idea I have gotten from reading books and articles? Joel To me it is just an object that stands out from the surroundings with urine of gland lure on it and a trap. Not an actual post, most of the time.
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Post by Possum on Oct 20, 2008 16:16:13 GMT -6
T-man: I was at one of your demos a few years ago where you showed your 2 hole/2 lure set. I've used it a few times, actually caught a coyote today in one of those. Not my idea of a true flat set nor is the stepdown set you advocate what I consider a flat set. 1) in the case of the 2 hole set, you suggest making it up against some sort of backing (tall grass next to mowed grass or something like that. I can understand how it works. The coyote is going to want to smell both holes eventually and as they sniff one, then the other, it's likely the 'yote will step on the pan. (I have had them dig out one of the holes, not mess with the other and not step on the pan).
On your stepdown set, there's a hole. Theoretically, the coyote is going to want to stick his sniffer into the hole and the best position to do that is where the trap is set. Again, I understand the premise of why it works. Basically, the same as a conventional dirt hole.
Now take a flat set--pee post, projection set, clump of grass the coyote is going to wiz on and it looks like blind-arse luck is involved to get the coyote to put its foot on the sweet spot.
My overwhelming question is HOW DO I ELIMINATE THE BLIND LUCK AND UP THE ODDS OF THE COYOTE STEPPING IN EXACTLY THE RIGHT SPOT?
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Oct 20, 2008 16:45:45 GMT -6
Use a good lure that makes them want to spend a little time there rather than a quick sniff and down the road.
Look at the approach which often will be from the side, especially if he is going to piss on it, and think of how he will approach the set.
Coyotes don't lift their legs like dogs, at least I've never though they did. They like to piss down on something.
Which makes me question the use of a "post" set. I always liked a little clump of grass or shrub maybe 3-10 inches tall.
Joel
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Post by trappnman on Oct 20, 2008 18:34:34 GMT -6
no, a stepdown set is not a flat set.
if you think a flat set is no backing, no guiding, etc- then that explains why you have little success. I told you how I do my flat sets- call them whatever you like.
your walkthrough provides the path- narrowed down trap placement and small guides, provides the foot placement.
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Post by SgtWal on Oct 20, 2008 20:10:50 GMT -6
I've always read about the flat being used by western trappers. I assumed it was due to the soil types and terrain. Fewer success stories from the east for some reason. I use low profile sets alot but there is some type of bait hole.
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Post by foxcatcher1 on Oct 20, 2008 20:11:21 GMT -6
Mike if I had time I would come up and show you a few of the nuiances of my flat sets.
Steve is right, all the basic rules of trapping still apply. Backing location and set construct play a key role in success when using the flat sets.
A word of caution though, if you use a piss post in high deer traffic make sure you secure the post very well I have had nights where deer carry the post 20-30 yards away.
I will post a few pics of my flat sets when I get up and rolling.
Don
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Post by mmwb (Andrew Parker) on Oct 20, 2008 20:31:00 GMT -6
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Post by johnthomas on Oct 20, 2008 20:53:42 GMT -6
Flat sets work well on coyotes because folks that use them alot tend to use what is there near sign to make their sets, and they are not picky about it, old timey western is one way to describe but more so than anyhting is trapping areas where holes are hard to dig or the ground fills them in faster than you can dig. Putting the paw on the so called sweet spor is no harder than at a dirthole if the lure is anygood and the coyote comes by the set, most old flat setters i have been around all set near a track, scratch, dropping, or a dead coyote, and they set real close to all of them, right under the track if at all possible, a lure that cauises lots of frantic scratching smeared on the side of a tree will catch plenty of coyotes if he is already on it before he smells it, or even if he winds it and comes over for that matter, he is going to step all over the place scratching at the lure so its not hard to get his foot on it if its under his old track it is not to tuff to get his foot on it then either, half a dozen traps set across any farm pond dam top in northwest kansas will get you several coyotes in a weeks time and every set can be 20 feet apart and only a trap in the dam top trail or just to side of it and lure smeared on a rock ten inches to the side of the trap, you can take just as many 10 feet from a good two track in a pasture right in the sod by just bedding the trap and covering with dirt and placing a football sized rock with lure on the bottom some urine on the top and a fist sized rock on each side of the trap jaws for guides, if you insist on making it look natural just chop and scoot a short 2 inch wide by one inch deep scratch through it but the yotes dont care until they get wised up anyway and you are long gone to the next bunch of dumbells by that time.
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Post by S. LULA on Oct 20, 2008 22:59:19 GMT -6
seems the longer ya leave a flat set the the better more of a late season deal on my end but works from mid oct. on , shines well in dec. & Jan if I can keep the set some what on a wind blown location that dont get buried in that great white stuff thats fallin at a heck of a rate right now , dumped 20 inches in the high country last week thought martin season was ready to start , most melted gonna make for a crunchy elk opener on sunday . hope all is well
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Post by trappngreys on Oct 21, 2008 6:31:04 GMT -6
When you get tired of remaking flooded out dirt holes down here you learn pretty quick how to make a flat set. A rain only makes a flat set that much better.
I set on sign or a travel way, down in this country it's not that hard to find places for sets. I set tight to my backing most of the time and have very few misses.
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Post by trappnman on Oct 21, 2008 7:28:47 GMT -6
so much of flat setting is directional guides by that- make the sets where his approach is already reduced- usually a 180 can be achieved just by using gullys, fences, weedlines, road edges, etc.
hole sets I tend to make in the wideopen with little or no backing- the hole itself plus the stepdown, provides the direction its worked.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Oct 21, 2008 21:41:23 GMT -6
The double punch hole set was something shown in Tom Miranda's books and videos, a walk through flat set, the holes with some spacing gets the coyote working them back and forth with proper guiding you can funnel him through and over the pan, his premise was based off of the 45 degree angle in which they approach, nothing he really came up with on his own but seen by many trappers for sure.
Many flat sets/walkthroughs with good lure/bait don't need a high backing just something to keep them in front making that more inviting the more natural it looks the less they are to try and shy around to the back side IMO, providing you are using the wind to draw them in, they feel comfortable working from down wind that is a coyotes nature, by allowing them to do this naturally from the line of travel and making that set appear natural and not a sore spot then the backing I have found can be a few small chunks of cactus, a smaller sized rock, a t-bone, etc. A bone has no fear to a coyote it is natural they see them in dead piles and laying about. It is when you have that distinct look small pattern/hard line is when many will try from the back side.
I use plenty of flat sets because they work and in many areas try digging a hole your gonna be there awhile, some are 1 hole flats, some are 2 hole flats, some are t- bone flats, some may call them dirt holes but the holes give no real visual attraction in many cases as I sometimes cover them with a rock just leaving the lip exsposed, the odor and trying to find the source helps move feet as well, with natural guiding and a decent jaw spread trap they pay off nicely. None are made with anything except a 5/8" rebar deeper than wider for sure and most are around 1" wide. Basicly a place to hold lure or bait and cone shaped making it hard for a coyote to hook and grab and leave.
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Post by trappnman on Oct 22, 2008 7:15:06 GMT -6
if you don't like flat sets - then state that- as you have several times- then let it go.
others do just fine with flat sets. -------------------
I catch zero coon in coon boxes. millions of coon fall to pockets- only rank amateurs use 160s, 220s, etc-
everyone knows that you can only catch coon in pockets.
so no one, ever- set a coon box- they just don't work.
course, I don't set any....maybe thats why..............
------------------------------
I think my point is clear-
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Oct 22, 2008 7:21:15 GMT -6
I really like that set you describe TC, dig a hole of some kind put some lure in it and cover with a cowpie with just a little hole showing. Kind of sexy, want to see more.
Joel
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Oct 22, 2008 16:04:54 GMT -6
Don't know much about sexy but sure is quick and effective, coyotes use their noses first and rely on them the most so if on location does one really need a flashy hole to catch coyotes? I use holes when I'm not so sure on exact travel location then I use something far more eye catching. To pull them to the set.
To me the most natural thing is to leave little disturbance and let them find it with their noses first and I believe that is the most natural presentation with the least hesitation. I have caught coyotes with nothing but fresh dirt as the attractor and also with bare bones and no lure, no different than snaring them on trails leading into a real old dead pile that holds no more attraction besides the bones and odors left on them. A meeting place, kinda like the corner bar.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Oct 22, 2008 16:20:09 GMT -6
I think a lot like you when trapping coyotes, less is more in a lot of cases.
Joel
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Post by trappnman on Oct 22, 2008 17:16:51 GMT -6
TC- I agree to a degree- I like the minimum fuss seta- but also, I think that a big dirthole with scattered dirt, is a magnet to coyotes.
When I make a dirthole, I advertise it.
off again, on again rain all day.....finally became heavy enough to say call it a day around 4- got in 28 sets at 11 locations, 60 miles, and out of 28 sets, made 2 walkthroughs...
wet ground and high grass, made dirtholes the way to go.
tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow....suppose to be sunny, then a chance of rain tomorrow night- clouddy and moist- could be a good night.
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