Coyote Social Structure

[collins]

On another post I've read some ask if the "wet bitch" had been chewed up at all. What does that mean?

I have often caught young coyotes or fox, that just by looking at them you can tell they are very passive, and they always seem to show some "chew marks" on there tail or body.

Do less dominate animals get chewed by the domiantes?

[bobwendt]

I don`t think it is social structure. plain put I don`t think one animal can comprehend that the other can`t leave, they think they won`t leave. not grasping what a trap is or the concept of the mate or litter mate not being able to leave, the dominant urges the trapped one to "come along", and uses force when their is no co-operation . I`ve seen where young pups were trapped and their necks all caked up from mom pulling on them. I`ve even had the pups killed by a parent tugging on them too hard. and mates can and will actually kill their own spouse for not leaving when told. I set a den once and layed back a mile or so with a spotting scope and watched as the pups got caught and then the 2 adults came in. talk about a show!

[trappnman]

brings up the point I once asked that went unanswered- the only chewing I get on trapped coyotes, is always on a big, bold male.

I've wondered many times- self induced, or other coyotes?

[bobwendt]

oddly, me always a pup or an adult female. I`ve 3 times had adult females killed in late jan/early feb, and only a large male track doing it all. I took it to be the mate as they came in togather, one gets caught and the other goes into a frenzy. I`ve told before the three coyotes we raised here to adulthood, free roaming. when ever I`d catch one the others would start killing it, actually I had 2 big house dogs and the 3 coyotes that ran togather . all were a pack till one would get in a snare then everyone piled on and I`m sure would have kiled it had I not heard the ruckus and beat it up there. didn`t matter who was caugght, who ever it was, he was it.

[trappnman]

Im back to thinking its self induced- its always a big male, and its always along the flanks

[thebeav2]

Does a trapped animal panic when caught and If pack members are close do they get bit In a fit of panic and then the fight starts.

[tonymalone]

Jun 6, 2008 8:41:26 GMT -6 trappnman said:

brings up the point I once asked that went unanswered- the only chewing I get on trapped coyotes, is always on a big, bold male.

I've wondered many times- self induced, or other coyotes?

i think it's some of both, as in no set deal.
i get yotes, that are chewed all over, head, ears, neck, flanks, belly,and legs, they didn't do all that to themselves, in some of the places they are chewd.
then some are chewed in the upper portion of leg only, between knee and body, just rite for reaching around and chewing, it's always the leg caught by, had 4 or 5 do that this year, a couple of them had absolutely no meat left on bone. ( if to much info please delete)

[bobwendt]

exactly beav. tman, the adult females near had the heads severered, definitly not doing it to themselves. in the pups , ma just can`t figure out why the pups won`t obey so is getting rough. at a den and only 3 pups caught, if they are lathered up on the back of the neck, I KNOW no sense re-setting that den, she moved them. need to go find the new den and not waste anymore time there. also why you bust the parents first or the same night. no time to be chaing den movers all over the prairie picking them off one or two at a time and then waste several hrs re-finding the new den.

[trappnman]

Bob, Im talking the big males- always on the flanks. not bit, just all the hair pulled out.

never had any other coyote harmed in a trap by anything but me.....

[bobwendt]

hair pulling only, yes maybe did it themselves out of frustratioin. I`ve had skunks pull all their tail hair for that reason. if coyotes attack another, there is no question some heavy chit went down.

[17HMR]

I had 1 (looked to be a yearling male), this past season the first day after a snow fall that was chewed up and bleeding, tracks all over but only 1 set leaving, followed those tracks to a set 100 yards away and had a big male, my biggest of the year.

[Zagman]

Not really sure of the number, but would say 25% or so of the coyotes I catch have bite marks on them. The location is usually the flanks, near the tail.

The location of these bites certainly indicates that it can be self-induced.....a coyote can't bite itself on its upper back and such.

But, in the snow, I do know that other coyotes can and do approach trapped coyotes right up and into the catch circle.

Also, with my dogs, when "worrying" a trapped coyote, they always go for that rear end, no matter how much that coyote tucks its tail.....assume other coyotes can get shots in right there just as easiliy.

This old male had a stripped tail......hair was all in the catch circle. His old lady was in the other trap, but I still assume that this one was self inflicted due to the naked tail, tip to tip. It seemed to be just too good of a job for another coyote to do while running and gunning.






I have pics of other coyotes bleeding from the flanks, but would have to find them.

I know when one of my dogs gets caught in a trap and starts ki-yi--ing, the other dog charges in and fights with it. All hell breaks loose.....

Zagman

[wheelie]

With poor coyote prices and large holdovers in the Auction houses, self mutalation does seem possible......when your worthless, your worthless!

I feel the same as above posters.....coyote caught, others say "come on, lets go" and then the others kick its ash till they figure he ain't going........
This location usually produces more yotes in the days following....Adult male, or if early season, adult female or more 1st year pups

[bobwendt]

no wonder I`m balding with age. thank goodness it`s not the second thing to go.

[trappnman]

wow- 25%.

throwing out those very few- say 10-12 at most that chewed the hair, I don't think I've had 2-3 coyotes ever with bite marks.

had zero in those 31 out west.

your coyotes really must be aggressive.

wonder if its their size, their genes, or the density? or combo of all?

[Zagman]

its my set locations.....I simply found those spots others talk of where three or more territories overlap.....thus my trapped coyotes are exposed to far more other coyotes to whack them while trapped......

Gosh, maybe I am a bit high on the %, dont know. Certainly seems like at least one a day for sure.

If it is other coyotes, then you'd think you'd have some of those culprits in the other sets, right? I think I had 14 doubles last year during my vacation 20 checks/91 coyotes. Percentage wise, I thought that was pretty good for these parts. Wish I'd kept track of the chewed coyotes as a percentage of the doubles for this conversation, but alas, I did not.

MZ

[bobwendt]

just a thought, maybe early fall trapping they get overheated and pull hair. I`ve seen my pee coyotes pulling flank hair just siting in a cage come that first 80 degree day in the spring. a big fat heavy haired ( lol, "haired") eastern dog fighting a trap could over heat fast in the fall before ice down time.

[romans117]

I would say more than half are bite on my lines. I cannot remember females getting beat up. Almost all were males. The bigger the worst biting. Neck and front shoulders on the big boys. I agree on the younger dogs near the rear.

I usually catch the males first. Alphas only. Just the way I roll.

[Zagman]

This coyote was chewed to heck and back......and was a male. Yes, those are all coyote tracks.....



On the same day, different farm, this one was clearing visited by others during the night. However, it was not touched. Yep, female. And yes again, all coyote tracks.



I posted these before, the male being caught at a place where I took 10 big males and two females at this exact spot.....during the late dispersal time: January/Early Feb.

By the way, the same exact spot where the tail less male is in the first picture.

Here's what baffles me about coyotes: How do you NOT catch a coyote at the other working set with this much activity, even if it is only ONE coyote coming back to visit and/or chew? In both cases, other set is within 25 - 30 feet.


Zagman

[bobwendt]

those last pics, I`d say that is a result of one coyote tresspassing and being caught red handed by the resident or at least "competitor" while he is tied down. the female may have been a mate of the ones doing te chewing and ordered he mauling. who knows. one thing I do know is coyotes are nasty animals, even to each other. heaven help you if you are arabbit or sheep ot deer. they will eat you alive. the irony is our indiana dnr thinks the live biz is mean to coyotes, as they partner with antis to quash it. why heck, it`s nothing compared to what they do to other animals and even each other.