Coon & sandbars ???

[RiverRat]

Ok one thing I love to see is a ton of coon tracks but HATE seeing them over a blimping sandbar. I have tried everything fish stick sets, grass wad sets, sticky bait on as stick, slap and go sets, using grass to hold my pocket open hoping it will stay open long enough ....... even haulin in clay to make it work. The worse part is my trap silting in. Yes I know all about bedding good oak leaves under it but , I just dont have the % catch that I feel I should. The only time I can really make one work is if it has an old root system or stump to make my pocket fit. Normally on a good run I got 4 traps set I will have 3-4 coon, but on sand bars I will have maybe 2 coon and the rest of the traps are flipped or silted in. Any advice ?

edit -- let me say that I don NOT like the grass wad & fish stick sets too much ground for them too work on flat bank and it works best with 2 traps = twice the weight and $$ and twice the rip off when it happens.

[RonMarsh]

Sand bars hold prints for a long time. So it looks like a lot of coon are there. If you look real close you will see that some of the tracks are up to a week old. This calculates to 7 times more tracks than coon.
Set up stream and down stream where the sand narrows and there is a grass or root overhang. Do Not walk over the sand bar yourself as this leads Johnnie Sneek-up to your sets.

[Jason]

Lots of the good coon creeks here are sandy. If you are having problems with the traps silting in, you might try the foam "underalls" that they make for canine trapping. We've had good luck using them in the water here.

[mustelameister]

#3 double longsprings and paper toweling, like the kind you find in school dispensers. Bed this in a couple inches of water, dig the trap into the sand a bit, then use the paper toweling under the trap and over the trap, just like you would a dirt hole set.

Then stick that PVC pipe in outside the trap similar to how the Beav sticks his in, so the 'coon has to come over the trap to get to the pipe. Drowner cable him to deeper water.

Got visual problems with theft, go with a wad of grass wired to a stick squirted with some good smellums.

Charlie Dobbins shared this sand setting technique with me about 20 years ago, and it's solved those sand sifting in problems for me since.

[thebeav2]

I have had some very good luck trapping sand bars for both coon and fox.
My In laws lived on the WI river so I had access to a boat and did a lot of fishing on the river. In early summer I noticed where the coon and fox were digging up the turtle nests.
This river was used hard all summer by boaters and they did a lot of over night camping and they all had camp fires. Our family also did a lot of camping on the river. I will tell you that every camp fire on that river was investigated by coon and fox.
That fall I ran a major road line to my In laws place then set the river and stayed over and checked the river line in the morning.
I just basically used the old camp fire set. or I saved charged wood and placed It where I wanted It. A trap set between some charred wood as used as foot guides caught some coon and fox. Polly fill under the pan took care of the sand problem. I would save all the bacon grease and scrapings from the local restaurants and pour It on the charred wood or just on the sand In the fire pit.
It was the easiest trapping I ever did.
Of coarse the set was destroyed with each catch. Since drags were out of the question I would just gather up the wood and re place It and re set. I used a dead man to anchor at the set. A 1 gallon paint pail lid with 4' of chain attached to It then buried about 2' deep.
Even shot some geese and ducks and caught some eyes when checking traps. It was a fun time.

[trappnman]

my methods are different- not all sides of a sandbar in my streams are going to be equal. One or more places are going to be stable. If you are trapping in 100% sand bottom creeks, then you got a whole nother problem- but my creeks, at least where I trap, there is more good bottom than sand- or if sand- hard packed sand.

so on those bars, I just pick the area that is stable. Put my pipe into the stable edge, and the trap out from it in the water. I found best thing to stop drifting, is a small brick or rock- place this on the up stream side, and it will direct the current so that it doesn't silt the trap. I didn't find under pan stuff to work much- because if it drifts, it drifts and packs enough over the trap that its about half out of commission. Never tried the paper towels.

Don't know why you don't like fish sticks- they are perfect for this type of situation.

[thebeav2]

I see the rest of you are setting In then water I myself think that setting on the dry sand bar will be a better choice. When I hear the word sand bar I picture a large amount of sand above the surface of the water. Set dry It a whole lot simpler.

Mike I tried every thing to keep large traps from silting In when trapping beaver on the river and I have yet found a way to do It. Even paper towels don't work where you have any current and boat traffic. I have had traps buried under 6" of sand. What I have found Is when you disturb the flow of water with trap placement you create a spot that changes the flow and when that happens suspended sand will fall out and create a miniature sand bar over your trap. I have had sand bars formed over drowned beaver that were 4' deep and needless to say I never got them back. That was before 330 body grips. Now thats all I use and the problem Is pretty much been eliminated.

[thebeav2]

Steve you must have a whole lot different situation with silting In then I do. If I did that brick thing In next to my set It would be under 12" of sand In a heart beat. That brick would act just like a snow fence and dump all the sand right on the trap. But then all situations are different.

[trappnman]

I'm sure we are talking totally different situations. On the majority of my creeks, sand bars are "permanent" if at all. Not shifting like a bigger river. I'm talking all walking type creeks.

the other sand thing I get into is where the creeks enter the Mississippi. Here they are 100% sand bottom, but shallow- a couple of inches deep for the most part. Can be checked with knee books, and low current. On these, a brick makes the difference between silting hard packed overnight, to being open all season.

[mtcbrlatrap]

I have sand bars on about 3 miles of my wad able river. This river is small by comparison to most say an average of 1-20 feet wide and say 2-3 feet deep with lots of 6 inch shallows and a few 5-7 foot holes.
On sand bars I have done the following. I dig out the narrow edge a bit at about the water line and back in say a foot or so. I use fairly large wood pieces say 2-4 inches thick and 2 foot long to build a V cubby. I put a 2 inch PVC pipe in the back of this V cubby. The wood pieces keep the current from refilling the inside the cubby area with sand and by making the cubby big enough with reasonable heavy pieces most coons come around and walk into the trap zone. The traps typically cover with lose sand but not much and that is helpful as they will fire. I have had to add some pan tension on these as the sand weight will fire them if I leave them real loose.


Bryce

[mustelameister]

Gary---I can usually keep those #3s for 'coon and #5s for beaver operational submerged on sand IF . . . I don't have any boat traffic. Waves kill this set. And yea . . I've had those sandbars over beaver too. But I dug mine out!!!

I still like your paint can lid idea, and have incorporated that like a gigantic pogo anchor on the up end versus rerod.

Now I save Campbell's soup cans, crush 'em flat, drill a hole through 'em and run 3/32" through it, washer on the backside, aluminum stop there, and S-link on the other end. Make these cables two foot long and bury em in sand at the bank, S-link the drowner cable to this, and then run rerod at the terminal end.

The terminal end is a stick of rerod 10' long, with a nut slid halfway up and smashed hard in place. Thanks to Bob Wendt for that idea. I can run that drowner cable out to deep water, slide the S-hook over the bottom of the rerod, keep a tight line, and run that rerod into the sand. I can usually sink it 5' deep in soft sand. All that's sticking up is the 5' of rerod above the bottom. What pokes above the surface depends on the depth and what you're comfortable with showing to others.

This I do from the boat. Works for me.

[thebeav2]

All good Ideas Mike. You use #3s for coon? Lol
In most cases I'm checking every day so I'm not all that worried about drowning my catch. But i understand your situation. Are you actually on the Wisconsin or just on the Baraboo. I think I will be floating from arena down to spring green this fall with 3 day checks. So i will be needing drowning set ups.

[mustelameister]

That's my Wisconsin River set, Beav. Boo River is mud, no sand. I use those #3 double longsprings in sets where I'm not certain exactly where the 'coon is going to place that foot. I like the big kill area and the longsprings keep that trap up on top the sand better. But only in a drowning situation. Arena to Spring Green would indeed be a good float.

[redeagle]

I copied and pasted this from the Missouri Trappers Association site. I thought it might make for some interesting reading. Redeagle.


Topic: The sandbar coffee can set (Read 167 times)
deerhunter65347
Global Moderator





The sandbar coffee can set
« Thread Started on Dec 31, 2007, 10:25pm »

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Well some dont know all of my sets. But how many have ever tried to set sand bars for coon. Its tough. Well here is a pretty quick set for coons on sand banks. Take a metal coffee can and cut a 2 inch diameter hole in the top. Punch a hole with a 16 penny nail then take a pair of tin snips and cut the hole using flaps meaning cut straight lines out to about 2 inches and bend the tin back under the can top. This will keep the animals from cutting themselves on the hole. Once you have the hole cut and the flaps bent under. Take and cut a slit up the side of the can about 3 inches and about 1/2 inch wide. Then go to your local sand bars. which coon love to work in. Take a number one coil and a lid anchor. The lid anchor i like to use is a five gallon bucket lid. But i have also used old pots and pan lids for anchors as well and can be picked up at any auctions cheap. Take the screw out that holds the pot lid handle and replace with a I bolt and screw it tight to the pan lid. And cable to trap and I bolt. Now you have a trap with a lid anchor. I like to run 18 inches for the cable to lid. Now go to the sand bar and dig a hole big enough to bury the lid in 18 inches of sand. Once that is done. Take and dig a hole half as deep as the can is tall. Then take the trap and set it at the bottom of this hole. Then take the can and place it over the trap at the bottom of hole. Making sure the Notch in the side of can is set so the trap chain wont get caught when you push the can down in the sand. Now with the notch and chain matched up push the can down till the chain and the top of the notch meet. Now if you can see under the hole in the can. You will see the trap pan. Cover the rest of the can with sand except for the top. Now you have a very shiny top with a hole in it. No self respecting coon could pass this up. But you got to add the kicker. Put some fish oil in the hole with a little mackerel. This set is strictly made to take coon but i have caught possum as well and a few mice. But this is a sure way of trapping those big sandbars with success. This set has been around since i was a youngen but back in the day we used lard cans. I figured i would bring it back for the bad weather days. its pretty much ice and snow proof just clean of the snow from the top and your back in business. The sand pulls the moisture down into the sand and away from the trap. But on rainy days it will have water in them but they still will catch coon. These cans can be made in the off season and be ready to go when you are. Good luck with it.
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hanging traps make no money Life

[rk660]

Ive been plagued with all the above problems too. Traps sanding in, fish sticks, grass wads, etc just dont click like a good pocket, usually because of too wide of an approach from the sides, and fenceing with sticks doesnt always do it. My first choice is to go above/below the bar to a vertical bank, but sometimes the coon arent in the water at that point. If I must set on a bar, one set I like if I got the material close by to make it, is take a large drift log 3-6 ft , 1-2' dia, at waters edge parallel to water. stick a soup can or piece of pvc at 45 degree at base of log right in the middle, using it for your pocket and the log is your backing. At least youve got a better backing compared to any fish stick/grass wad set. If log is big enough, and sign dicates 2 sets, I use 2 sets on a 4 ft log, one at eac end, and even prefer 2 sets at the log for all the trouble it takes to set up. A big log layed at waters edge really draws in the coon too. 2nd problem is the trap sanding in, and Ive never found any one thing that works all the time. Seems picking spot where least amoun of current is helps. About any time you dig any kind of bed, your just asking to be sanded in. Many times better off just laying trap on sand w/o digging any bed works to a degree. A bigger trap here seems to help too. I like no 3 coils here. Hair trigger so least amount of pan travel fires trap. Trade off is now youve usually got a shallow trap thats not bedded and coon jacks with it more. Sometimes it works, sometimes just creates another problem. Here is one thing that "kind" works too. Dig a wider bed about 2ft across if needed to get some water depth, then cut a piece of sod about 10" square and deep and you can get it, like 4-5" thick so it doesnt wash or fall apart as fast, plant it down grass down, and bed in the more solid mud side of it. What I like is having the sod off the level of the bottom a couple inches and sometimes the current keeps it washed off on top. Making a bigger bed if needed, gives more area to silt back in and buys a little time.

Ive also done similar to Brice, dig back in a notch in bank to get trap out of current, with couple logs layed in a V on side of notch, a soup can in back stuck in a mound or another log for backing. I think Brice has a good one there, as the side walls created would let sand cave in so bad, and you get yourself out of the current. I could see if some like this needed on large scale, you could make somthing out of thin masonite board or maybe plywood, throw a hinge on back so they fold up and store easy and not take up too much space. I wonder if you closed off your notch at mouth of v, segrigating you V "pond" from the river, if that would end that sanding in problems.

Matt Jones makes a "log stick" set with a 4-5" dia log, with chain saw notches in it for hold bait that might have some potential. I think he and Dale B then made some stakes with a large plate about 3" down from top with holed drilled on end, then you take a 6-8" long peice of log with 1/2" hole drilled on end stuck onto rebar and stuck out in water. Then log would be pretty much rock solid too, and bait hid somewhat and harder to reach. I made Matt about 100 of these stakes last year which he never got picked up,and might have to try them. My thinking was drill a 1.5 hole into side of log for a bait holder. maybe that would give a little better directional control compare to the overrated fish stick or grass wad set.

I use some fish sticks when forced to, but really dont like them, lot more misses, hunting around for sticks, then break off 1/2 the time trying to shove in bottom. I dick around longer than I really care, gathering stick, breaking off, smear bait on and watch it plop into water 10 seconds later, then when all done and 1/2 pissed cause I could have been on my way and just set a better location, I look back and my "creation" of rotten sticks that are 1/2 broke from shoving in, a trap thats going to sand in in a couple hours, or if it dont, the coon will feel it and flip it over unsprung, or get this, once the damn coon was giving me his version of the bird, he had the trap slung over my sticks and hanging in air unsprung. A prayer after making this set helps "God, please give me a stupid coon with no feeling in his fingers, and make it snappy, preferreably 15 minutes after sundown, amen"

[rk660]

Another idea, and dont remember if I heard it, read it or dreamed it. One of them deals i always wanted to try but forget in the rush to get ready. Take a 4-5" pvc that a 1.5 fits into, saw notches for lever so trap sits a couple inches into pvc, stick straight up into water so trap is just barely sumerged, smear bait all along top edge of pvc, or, bait below trap on wad of grass, hair trigger trap and cover with fine grass, leaving trap out of water.

[mustelameister]

Hmmmmm . . . . . . somewhere in this thread is a possible solution to trapping sandbars with current.

I'll have to run that stretch down from Arena next fall to see what Gary finally came up with. Maybe run the boat by a couple of sets sending those 2-foot waves in just to see if he's really found the solution.

Rk---good stuff. Sure is a lot of screwing around when setting in sand, eh?

Just when a fella thinks he's come up with the ultimate way of setting a trap in sand in the current, you come to the realization you'd need a barge to carry all the foo-foo-rah if you intended to make more than a dozen of these sets.

[thebeav2]

No that's all you have to do Is set DRY and you eliminate 80 % of your problems.
Another thing Is you can eliminate 90% of all sand bars from the get go. If the sand bar Is close to shore or connected to shore set It If not ignore It.
Deep water areas with steep banks set the high ground the coon will be on top passing around these spots.
Mike don't get to close to shore when your making those 2' waves those steel fence posts that are set about 4" under water cause all kinds of problems with boat hulls LOl

[trappnman]

No that's all you have to do Is set DRY and you eliminate 80 % of your problems.


that only applies to those trapping before Thanksgiving- as always on land- freze and snow.

rk- RE: fishstick. Oddly enough, this is one of the sets I've used very little, and not at all in many years. I used it before pvc pipe, for similar situations. Flat marshes were good areas for this. And I always, rather to my surprize, found them to be very effective. I SHOULD use them, but prefer pockets and pipes.

another good set for flat marshes and water soaked ground- is to take a piece of stiff 1 x2 wire, about 2 feet square- bend it into a U, then cover it with marsh vegitation- put a pile of vegitation along back as shelf to hold lure/bait. This set is a good set.

[thebeav2]

In a normall winter the ground surrounding those streams may may be frozen solid but your stream banks and sand bars are still workable do to the fact that water Is warmer and keeps the banks un frozen. Same with high sand bars you can find some very dry sand on these winter sand bars (before snow) and are easy to set dry.
And body grippers along those high bank coon trails.
Once the water gets hard It's time to go south LOl