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Post by kyboy on May 10, 2008 21:33:53 GMT -6
A real offset is about mechanical advantage, it dosnt do a thing for animal comfort. The jaws still close just as tightly(think about it, ever seen a yote or a foxs leg thinner than 3/16"). The offset just allows a little higher lever lockup. If you have a 1/4" offset then the levers will lock about a 1/4" higher than without the offset. Just take a 1" board and put it in a offset and then a non offset trap. Accurately measure the height of the levers and you'll see what I mean. Not a lot of difference but their is some. If you want real offsets you have to remove or press metal. Lugs do nothing but make a trap "legally" offset. Lugs are not easier on an animals foot neither do they offer a mechanical advantage.
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Post by Stef on May 11, 2008 8:20:52 GMT -6
Offset traps for me aren't just a "lever" deal. All my k-9 foot traps are laminated and offset and where I do see them shinning the most... its when it catches a fox or a coyote by two toes for example. A strong trap with Thick jaws ( double laminated ) and a large offset will keep your trapped animal there without major damaged to the fragile "fingers" toes... it works well for extended check trapping or not.
Lugs on a Montana... no problem....98-99% same deal
On a Bridger... Levers are down a little. I grind-ed the edge of the jaws a little where the levers lock and now, they go as high as manufactured offset traps. Note that my #3s are 5/16th offset... not the 3/16th bent,curved manufactured offset.
And anyway.... I don't believe that it makes such a big difference ( talking levers ) If we take out Newhouse traps or other super powerful traps... Most traps on the market won't lock on an animal leg anyway. The trap will lock when the animal pull ( if caught super high ) It will lock when the jaws hit the first foot pad(s) of the animals. You know.... the foot become flat and the trap has some grip. This is where the offsets shine after all.
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Post by trappnman on May 11, 2008 10:38:06 GMT -6
1 toe in that wide of an offset? I'd think just a matter of time....
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Post by thebeav2 on May 11, 2008 10:58:21 GMT -6
Offsets, laminations, double laminations . I feel that all these things allow for more foot slippage then just regular jaws. Offsets on small footed animals like grey fox are a disaster, just to much foot damage. Laminations with out offsets are the way to go. And that isn't 100% either. No matter what combo you use If your trapping In freezing weather you are going to have frozen feet especially with extended checks. Is It possible that offsets cause toe catches? Just maybe If you had a regular jawed trap that the foot wouldn't slide out to where It would be holding them by the toes. And I would think adding laminations to the mix would even make It worse as to foot moving.
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Post by trappnman on May 11, 2008 11:03:25 GMT -6
I too conisered whether offets cause toe catches. I'm speaking here only of Duke 1.75s, but when i used them exclusively, I 'd have 2-3 toes a year. I don't get any in the offsets, BUT- I do, unlike it seems every other coyote trapper out there, have a few snapped traps- so I could well have lost one.
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Post by Stef on May 11, 2008 12:42:26 GMT -6
Offset doesn't cause toe catch at all - not more than regular jaws. If jaws hit above big pad...it will lock there. If below.... right below it, it will lock before the toes and so on......
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Post by thebeav2 on May 11, 2008 13:30:56 GMT -6
That may be true on a larger type animal like a coyote but In my opinion a trap with a 5/16ths offset on a small footed animal like a fox can be pulled down to the toes with a good hard first lunge. Chain length would also have some bearing here. I don't think this would be as big a factor with a regular jawed trap ( no laminations)
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Post by kyboy on May 11, 2008 15:27:03 GMT -6
I use offsets laminated. they are easier on a animals foot but its because of the lamination, not the offset(unless the offset it a whole lot wider than factory, then it may let up a little).. I dont really think offsets cause toe catches, I think thats mostly pan tension and just bad luck at times. Traps are not complicated machines. their pretty easy to figure out. . A trap is just a very simple mechanical device. It has a set group of tolerences and measurements. I hear people complain all the time about toe catching coyotes in small traps. I usually dont even bother but if they would only stop and think about it........You have a trap with a 4 1/2" jaw spread, then your trying to make a complete pad catch on a pad that has the potential to be 3 1/2" long. You have a whopping 1/2" on either side to work with. One inch one way or the other and you have a half pad or a toe catch. The trap isnt going to jump over the pad, it closes where its jaw size allows it to close.If half the foot is inside the jaws then half the foot is what you got. if two toes hang over the jaw and trip the pan(which is easily posible with a 4 1/2" jaw trap) then two toes is what you got. I mean come on its simple math. Now this is good strong traps that stay were they are suppose to. Not that this has anything to do with this thread, since no ones mentioned it. Loose a toe caught coon or a nail caught beaver in a trap with a 1/4" offset. An appendage that is lucky to be 1/4" in thickness to start with and people wonder why it didnt hold them? Anyway Ive never had a problem with offsets but I make sure and use them for the right job. A trap is like any other tool. Use the right one and you shouldent have a problem. Thats just the way I look at it. Dont make me right but it aint broke so I aint fix'n it
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Post by Stef on May 11, 2008 17:00:53 GMT -6
Yes TheBeav I agree.... 5/16th offsets are on my coyote traps only. My fox traps, depending on the brand and the "aged" bending on them...LoL I would say that its in between 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch. I bought from BadDog, couple years ago some new style #1.75 Victor 5/16th offset (mill job) , laminated that were modified for coyote trap testing and I did catch a few red fox in them and didn't lost any so far but I didn't catch any coon and won't use them where coon can be found. Gray fox ?... are they imported animals or what
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