|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 7:02:53 GMT -6
Post by 17HMR on Apr 18, 2008 7:02:53 GMT -6
I have found that deer in some areas around here are more attracted to urine than deer in other areas, I think its because of the nutiants in their forage, or lack of.
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 7:15:28 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 18, 2008 7:15:28 GMT -6
Have at it, Steve! LOL
Have at what? Did you say something you think I disagree with? If so, what exactly?
I agree with your post 100%. Remember when I posted the picture of my "perfect set" and I posted that lori's set caught coyotes, and mine remained untouched by canines? Many tried to come up with the reason(s)- and I thought was this- her set was in the front of the boat.
But since you asked.... I agree with your lure testing almost 100%- but want to tell you a story on how I tested Cachottier. I was collaring, and at $100 a yote, I wanted all I could catch. Stef, someone I had never met or knew about, sent me a call lure to try.
Weird yellow smelling stuff. So when making my sets, I'd use the same lures tat have previously been successful for me- after all, why fix what wsan't broke. But since I said I would try the lure, I did- but NOT at my "best" set locations. Almost as after thoughhts- I'd have 2-3 sets made- then think- I better put in a Cachottier set. And these sets, would have been setl ocations, tat Normally I would have passed by.
and the cachottier, on a very limited number of sets, far outproduced the total combined production of the other sets, by a large margin. Now- this doesn't mean in any way, that I wouldn't have caught those coyotes in the other sets, but what it did for sure tell me, was that Cachottier attracted those coyotes first, and that it had the "power" to do so even if slightly off location, over my other lures. And that meant something to me.
I've spent much more time testing coon lures in the traditional method of using only that lure exclusively for a full season or longer. ProCoon for example, I tested for stef exclusively on coon, 100% strighht with no fish oil, bait, etc from Oct 10th to the middle of March in every weather condition, every stage in the coons progression from fall to winter to spring.
The only lure that comes close to it, in my opinion, is Hardcore- but with one distinct difference ProCoon doesn't start feezing at about 30 degrees, and the smell is always working for you. Does this mean you can't catch coon without it? Of course not- but it does mean that I found a lure that works in all weather and temp conditions, and does the job better, overall, over a 5 month season.
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 7:16:14 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 18, 2008 7:16:14 GMT -6
I have found that deer in some areas around here are more attracted to urine than deer in other areas, I think its because of the nutriants in their forage, or lack of.
my thoughts also.
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 8:46:22 GMT -6
Post by Zagman on Apr 18, 2008 8:46:22 GMT -6
My apologies! When we talked of lure testing before, we disagreed on whether one could truly test a lure or not side by side during fur season.
MZ
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 8:56:21 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 18, 2008 8:56:21 GMT -6
sorry Zags, don't recall that- I don't remember ever believing any different than what I've stated.
In fact, I recall stating to you on the phone a while back, exactly what I stated here-
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 9:14:30 GMT -6
Post by bobwendt on Apr 18, 2008 9:14:30 GMT -6
I`d thinka lot of which lure he hit first would be just as simple as whichever one his trail crossed first. heck I`ve took a dump on the prairie and had coyotes rolling it around and marking it. so testing lure can`t mean too much unless the stuff issome REALLY bad chit. and they`d probably hit that too.
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 9:20:49 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 18, 2008 9:20:49 GMT -6
yes and no Bob- if consistently, a lure make in not perfect locations, outproduces lure made on sets with prime locations (same general location) on a daily basis, some conclusion can be drawn.
or at least 1 conclusion- and thats that in side by sdie sets- esp when the off lure sets are more numerous and betterl ocated, if a consistne pattern is seen, than a consisten pattern exists.
and please keep in mind, before I'm quoted inaccuracely elsewhere by someone that might have "snapped a trap once", that I am NOT saying I would have caught any more or less coyotes... what I AM saying, is that for sure, canines have preferrences in lure.
|
|
mean1
Demoman...
Posts: 173
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 9:22:07 GMT -6
Post by mean1 on Apr 18, 2008 9:22:07 GMT -6
Bob, Are you saying coyotes act the same in cages as they do in the field? I have watched lots of video's and watched in snow on the line every year and never see coyotes pissing on there lunch, or a fresh kill. It's always seems to be within a few yards or something by there that stands out, maybe they piss on there food in cages because they have nothing else to piss on? I am not saying that piss on a dirthole is bad because it catches animals and always will. I have just had better luck keeping it away from bait and food lures.
mean1
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 9:27:50 GMT -6
Post by wheelie on Apr 18, 2008 9:27:50 GMT -6
bad urine repels...good urine attracts
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 9:35:07 GMT -6
Post by Zagman on Apr 18, 2008 9:35:07 GMT -6
Steve, it was in the last year or so and is somewhat addressed in you post above.....we were somewhat disagreeing that a true side by side test could occur, and I did not think it could be done FAIRLY due to all the variables I mentioned above.
Boddickers tests were over a long term, controlled criteria, using scent stations with a dirt pattern around them to count tracks and hits.
I think the most recent issue of American Trapper, for those that get it still, shows a picture of a test site.
So, it was not side by side testing, but rather, individual lures at individual sites that showed the interest, or disinterest, thereof.
MZ
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 9:52:15 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 18, 2008 9:52:15 GMT -6
Zags- I don't know if you ever could test lures saying 1 produced, and the others didn't. If I gave you that impression I said that, then I apologise.
I don't know if you could test lures side by side or even location vs location- because of what you said- all the variables with coyotes, and with the locations.
In a location test- wouldn't whatever lure was used, be the lure that attracts?
About the only "test" trappers can make- is does Lure B, when used over a line in comparison with Lure A- catch more or less?
and if one catches more or less- then isn't that conclusion as accurate as we need it to be?
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 10:10:00 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 18, 2008 10:10:00 GMT -6
btw- was given a jar of the white tablets that the MN dnr uses for their predator test tracking sets- talk about stuff that to me has no smell and/or attraction to yotes. Always was going to try them, but never have. Whne I go out ot the shed, I'll see what the ingreidients are.
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 10:26:27 GMT -6
Post by Zagman on Apr 18, 2008 10:26:27 GMT -6
Not quite, IMHO.
It could be a very real scenario that a coyote is coming down a two track....lets say both sets are on the upwind side of the two track.....
The wind is in the coyotes face, and he smells Cachottier, but its in the farthest set.
He approaches the unusual smell, and stalls out 15 feet short. He smells a grass tuft that other coyotes have already hit, but its actually your set. You catch him there......even though he was coming to the Cachottier.
I could see many coyotes being attracted to both, and by luck of the draw, the first one they hit, gets the nod.
Again, since no one makes two sets the same, the same coyote is coming down the trail, the wind is blowing the wrong way, and he sees a big hole with dirt all over, or a t-bone, but smells neither set. He approaches the visual and when close, finally catches a whiff of the goop at that set......doesn't mean he was not attracted to the other lure, he just did not smell it.....
The list goes on and on..........................
Zagman
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 10:36:53 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 18, 2008 10:36:53 GMT -6
yes, I agree- isn't that pretty much what I said?
"About the only "test" trappers can make- is does Lure B, when used over a line in comparison with Lure A- catch more or less?
and if one catches more or less- then isn't that conclusion as accurate as we need it to be?"
what don't you agree with in the above statement? (key words: over the line, meaning widespread, consistent use)
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 10:48:58 GMT -6
Post by cameron2 on Apr 18, 2008 10:48:58 GMT -6
I agree with what Zag and Steve (bet that will make them sleep better) are saying about the difficulty of testing, because of the multitude of factors. One other aspect of lure testing is not just whether an animal responds to a given odor, but the type and intensity of the response. In Mark's example, if the coyote wanders by the scent post but doesn't wind up in the trap pattern, the scent post doesn't usually hold enough intrigue to make him come back a second or third time, or roll on the odor, or try to eat the lure or bait. When I was testing lures and baits and watching the result on trail camera video, it was amazing to see that some critters were just possessed by certain odors and it was hard to imagine a scenario where they wouldn't be caught (unless the trap was froze down, rock under the pan or something like that). I know everyone sets their trap so they catch the critter on the first pass , but i think intensity of the reaction is as valuable as whether or not an animal shows any reaction at all.
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 12:02:19 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 18, 2008 12:02:19 GMT -6
but i think intensity of the reaction is as valuable as whether or not an animal shows any reaction at all.
me too- how much do you charge to test lures? serious.
I'd love footage of my favorite lures.
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 12:05:53 GMT -6
Post by cameron2 on Apr 18, 2008 12:05:53 GMT -6
All it takes is a couple trail cameras and some time.
I have 6 trail cameras out right now testing some home made products, along with some commercial lures. It sure isn't scientific, but its a lot of fun.
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 12:10:31 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 18, 2008 12:10:31 GMT -6
All it takes is a couple trail cameras and some time.
Always a lawyer and time..LOL
When I get the new paste lures, I'll send you some-
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 18, 2008 22:22:19 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Apr 18, 2008 22:22:19 GMT -6
In Alabama you can shoot 1 deer per day all season long and what is the point? If you have the set off the trail 10 yards and the wind plays to the deers nose it won't check it out in your area?
Deer,jack rabbits,porkys,cattle and sheep if they can smell it they will investigate it, somethings much longer than others. With the traps I use snapped traps or releasing deer from those traps is a pain, so are ewe's and calves.
Cameron that is the point to me! Intensity of the attractor, the longer the coyote is there my odds of catching it go up big time. A quick squirt and gone isn't the same as spending 1-3 mintues digging out the hole,face rubbing the bone etc.
|
|
|
Urine
Apr 19, 2008 6:46:07 GMT -6
Post by ohiyotee on Apr 19, 2008 6:46:07 GMT -6
I have farms in my area including mine that you cannot walk 50 feet in any direction and not cut a deer track. This ain't set the soybean water way country here or the fence row bottle neck. Sure we have spots like that but not that common here. the easiest and most EFFECTIVE way i have found to reducing my interference with the deer herd and rabbits (Al tough i run pan tension to avoid them) is to reduce the amount of urine i use.. It is that simple , and i also feel it has not hurt my catch that much when you consider the down time of traps that are out of operation due to the deer . Granted i am not the coyote killer that most of you are , but for my area and my effort i make a decent showing. Most importantly i think that those who are addicted to and are commenting on have to ask themselves the question. Have i really ever tried trapping canines with out unrine and if the answer is no than my be me ,with my small coyote catch am truly more qualified to comment on the subject than you. Mybe not , i am not that cocky of a guy.
|
|