moon once again.....

[SteveCraig]

You all are assuming that predators move all night. They do not. It has already been established that what causes fish movements is a frequency of light, or i should say a change in a particular light frequency, or a lack thereof.
Light is made up of many different frequencies. Many that we can not see.
The same is true with mammals. The lower light frequencies, the longer and better the "movements".
The more higher light frequencies, the shorter the movements and less active they are.
They still "move", just not as much on what we call brighter nights.
Also noted are that it is the same for daytime movements as well.
Animals see different light frequencies than we humans.
FWIW

[gunny]

Steve,

If I understand what you are saying, it is that the animals move when the frequency of light is most optimal to thier vision?

[SteveCraig]

Yes or a lack of a certain frequency as well.
For instance,
Fish do not have eyelids like we do. The only way for them to get away from a particular light situation is to go deeper. A deeper school of fish, is a harder fish to catch consistantly.
They are totally controlled by their enviorment . In this case weather and water conditions.
They become active at certain times of the day and night due to the amount or lack of light conditions.(frequencies)
Predators are no different. They are inactive at night just like they are in the daytime. The abundance or lack of certain light conditions will determine how much and for how long activity periods last.
In certain weather conditions, activity will be early in the morning and again late afternoon, with lulls during the middle of the day.
Under other weather conditions, very little or no activity during the morning or late afternoon periods, yet from 10am to 2pm, they move like crazy.
The same can be expected at night hours too.
When calling predators, and i have a very poor morning period, I will not stop calling from 10 to 3 and it will mean a great calling period. Lions and bobcats really exhibit this on a very consistant basis.
Some of my best calling is in this time period during the Nov to March time period.
This has always held true for my fishing as well in the winter period.
From Mar to Oct, the early morning and late afternoon is the best time period.
This is only a good hand rule, as there are many variables with weather and different seasons that will change this for me. The hand rule still works and works well, and is always my guideline.
When I call at night in Indiana and the just after dark period is poor, then I usually find a couple of really good hours somewhere between 10 and 2 to be super night calling.
Again, the same at day time. So what you and I see and know as darkness, is not what fish and mammals are seeing. I believe they are being controlled by their envoiroment, weather, and water conditions.
If any of these things help them to "see" better, then that is a plus for both of us.
I learned this stiff many years ago and It has served me VERY well in both calling, fishing and trapping. It is a huge reason for my success on calling the cats. Fox and coyotes too for that matter, but with some minor exceptions.
There is just so much more to learn and not enough time to learn it all in this lifetime.
My growth as a trapper and caller and a fisherman always has plenty of room for more growing.
And I am fine with that.

[bobwendt]

I catch lots of guff about running at midnight to 2 a.,m.and mostly done by daylight. occasionaly I catch animals after I run, but so rare as to say negligable. I see coyotes at all hours of the day , east or west, yet is that movement hunting, i.e. catchable animals, or mearly got shook out by a tractor, hunters, maybe makiung a beeline across country? I think so. as rarely catches any other time except dark to wee hours. a can`t count the stories of "I ran one off at 6 a.m., so dont ever go before daylight", that I read from guys that don`t catch enough to give advice. not being smart arse, just saying how it is. the animal that I catch the highest PERCENTAGE of in the daylight is bobcats, next coyotes and as far as I know never on coon/skunk etc. ok badgers, but they are so few I don`t rally keep track of them. maybe 25-50 a year winter and summer both. there are always special situations. once I set a ranch at high noon and out by 2 oclock wth 17 sets in. the rancher cked cows at 4 pm and I had 3 coyores already. but he was the only one calving and all the coyotes were bald from mange and had to hunt in the daytime to keep from freezing to death. they wre there for the afterbirth and hoing for a few deads. in mange endemic areas a guy is better to run late afternoonand forget night and early morning runs. in that case it`s hunt in he warm daylight hrs or die. at night they curl up in bail piles etc. I figure they are like us, like to eat everyday, and eat first thing when they get up, like us. that is the early hours. after that they play or dink around. moon/light etc may may that hunting easier, i.e. shorter. whatever, me working harder is my biggest advantage in catchng big numbers, over all other knowledge combined. that`s sobering to know .

[Billy Y]

I'm having a little trouble following you here Steve. To me light frequency is about color - i.e. red being the lowest visible frequency and ultra violet being the highest frequency - in humans. White light, sunlight that is, contains all visible frequencies.

So are you saying that animals are more active when the light is in the lower (red) range? Is there always some phase shift from morning to noon or early evening to midnight that brings it more red from white?

So what causes a change in light frequency? Is it atmosperic conditions?

[SteveCraig]

"To me light frequency is about color"

Is it?
To me it is not.

"So what causes a change in light frequency? Is it atmosperic conditions?"
It is my understanding that it is atmosphereic conditions.
But I neednt care what causes it, I just need to know that it happens.
I just know that it DOES affect the movement patterns of all creatures.
And it is not so much a change in the conditions, but that a "changing" conditions affect them in more of a negative way. Slow,shorter movement times and patterns.
A long stable weather pattern is far better for continued consistant movements that a constantly changing weather pattern. But these come few and far between.
With lions and bobcats, I can almost predict when they are on the move in the daytime just by observing the condition in the atmosphere.
A bright blue bird day after a cold front has moved through the day before is a very poor calling day for them. They moved right after the front went through in the night. Yet at about 2 or 3 oclock in the afternoon, I will notice a few high cirus clouds starting to form, and you will see not only prey animals moving, but the predators as well. Then very little movement the rest of the day.
My observations are from 1000's of hours in the field with all kinds of records being kept in that time.
Another interesting side note is I have found that when animals "move", they ALL move. For that short 2-3 hour calling time, I will have some of the finest calling there is to have.
When it is dead, it is dead everywhere I go.

[trappnman]

al I know is this- whwen running coon hounds- the best strike times vary depending on conditions. some nights it might be 1/2 hour after dusk, another it mighht be 1 in the morning.

Coyotes also do a lot of early morning travelling. When you get a light snow at 2-3 in the morning, and you see tracks all over at 9- they were moving.

if its all light related, and it might be, then it becomes apparent that light densiitys change plus/minus throughout the night- so a blanket statement that predators don't move thorughout the night, is as a stand alone statment, wrong.

[bobwendt]

I`ll stand it alone. they do not move equally thru out the night. in fact I`m positive of it, with the miles and numbers to back it. hands on experience. are you saying they do? based on what?

[trappnman]

did anyone SAY they move equally throughout the night?

no- don't think anyone did.

what I did say, is that that time of night of maximum movments, changes with conditions.

[bobwendt]

I agree, but only in extremes, like big storms, excessive wind. which half of the night does 90% of the movement happen, I`d say before 1 a.m. everything else being equal, always. if preventing theft, beating it around on frozen ground, avoiding traffic and snoopy eye hassles etc is an issue, it`s not only ok to run everything early, waaaay early, but very wise.

[trappnman]

I agree- I would say that on an average night- most activity is indeed before 1 am.

[Heavymetal]

I had a fellow the other night tell me that on a moon light night you should go to a flat set rather than a dirthole set he says that a flat set will get the coyotes on the moon lite nights. Whats your opinion on this? I really don't like making flat sets but when I do its usually a post type set. I had rather punch a dirthole than anything.

[bobwendt]

that guy doesn` trap much, maybe not at all. l

[romans117]

unskilled said:

I had a fellow the other night tell me that on a moon light night you should go to a flat set rather than a dirthole set he says that a flat set will get the coyotes on the moon lite nights. Whats your opinion on this? I really don't like making flat sets but when I do its usually a post type set. I had rather punch a dirthole than anything.

That statement comes from the guys that say a yote sees the pattern and will not commit to the set because it doesn't look right. Maybe on pressured yotes that have been hammered in one area, but not across an 80-100 trap line.

[trappnman]

Bottomline, I do think the moon has some bearing on canine movments.

I don't think that it is a stand alone factor- that is, that nights of a full moon are always bad.

I think that mitigating circumstances has a lot to do with the equation.

A full moon, esp an early full moon on a cloudless night, does seem, for me, to reduce canine catches.

Wind is also a factor- but here we rarely have wind without at least partially cloudy skies.

most cloudless full moon nights are also still nights- those are my worst overall I think.