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Post by bobwendt on Aug 20, 2007 9:21:46 GMT -6
I`d argue with you but it would be a waste of my time. I`m serious.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 20, 2007 9:26:03 GMT -6
You can be as serious as you want, but when someone tells me its sunny, and I'm getting wet, I'll form my own conclusions.
you pinch your hand in a car door- handicapped for life?
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 20, 2007 10:02:28 GMT -6
that`s what I mean, sensless to argue the obvious. one thing I`ve learned is you run the show here. I`m ok with that.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 20, 2007 10:15:26 GMT -6
Bob= one thing you have known from the beginning, is SAYING its so doesn't MAKE it so.
when I see the results on the otter, the results on the coyotes and MY OWN visible results of seeing the same dogs daily after being caught, your constant saying that 100% of the time the foot is toast- doesn't add up.
no matter WHO owns the site....
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Post by rk660 on Aug 20, 2007 11:30:23 GMT -6
...and thats about anything that doesnt have fur, leaves, bark or tits aint it,LOL.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 20, 2007 12:02:42 GMT -6
yep, I admit it. I`m an idiot on many things and an unrelenting genious on others.
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Post by robertw on Aug 20, 2007 13:04:59 GMT -6
Steve, In regards to the otter.......I will disgree. Been there done that, even had the vetertnary inspection, the whole nine yards.
Unlike coyotes (3-4 days), it takes roughly 6-8 days before the damage becomes visible from the presure necrosis on an otter captured in a foot hold trap or a cable restraint.
Unless you actually are able to examine the animal (otter) 10 days AFTER the capture you have no idea exactly how much damage was actually sustained in the trap.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 20, 2007 13:18:17 GMT -6
Im just going by what the postings showed.
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Post by motrapperjohn on Aug 22, 2007 18:58:40 GMT -6
I allso make pad kits for the MB650, 750 #5 coil spring and longspring and the CDR and the 1.65 Bridger and 1.75 duke and victor.
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Post by Woodsmoke on Aug 22, 2007 19:22:28 GMT -6
That is the problem with postings - they are performed on dead animals. Pressure necrosis takes several days of being alive to actually show up - so not sure that there would be any evidence in an animal that was killed and removed from the trap.
Having run regular jaw traps, offset laminated traps, and softcatch traps for live market foxes - and had the animals in pens where they could be observed, there is no doubt in my mind that softcatch is currently the only acceptable way to go for foot trapping live market animals.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 23, 2007 2:57:00 GMT -6
and you can`t relate a large dogs foot , an animal that is a slug, doesn`t even make a spin or twirl, and as I`ve said probbly time in trap very short from his bellering and screaming like a stuck hog, his injurys compared to a much smaller wild animal fighting like mad, so much so he literally wears the ground out. and a 3 day ck, any trap strong enough to keep him there will cause irreparable foot damage, 100% of the time, dog or wild beast. it`s all bout time in trap. I never have and never will buy anyones storys about it doesn`t hurt, he is not hurt, etc on terrestrial more than 24 hr ck. times. we`ve always justified what we do on scientific fact, I seee no reason to switch to hsus type slanting of the truth now.
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Post by Woodsmoke on Aug 23, 2007 7:02:36 GMT -6
I was going to say the same thing Bob. Most dogs that I have caught basically lay down once they realize they aren't getting away and the initial fright of the trap catching them wears off. Many times no set destruction to speak of. I just don't think you can compare a domestic to a wild canine, and draw any reasonable conclusions about trap damage, or lack thereof.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 23, 2007 8:41:48 GMT -6
hmmmnn- not I who was always making the comparisons with dogs and feet.
in fact, I tried my best to make that distinction- that the DOGS I caught seem to have to damage for years to come.
as far as my colared coyotes- stock 2 coiled 1.75, 6 inch chain, nice weather, early checks- they were posted months or years later.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 23, 2007 8:43:44 GMT -6
just don't think you can compare a domestic to a wild canine, and draw any reasonable conclusions about trap damage, or lack thereof.
EXACTLY what I have been saying- but Bobs postion has always been that ALL dogs in REGULAR traps, suffer irreversable damage. And thats the only point I'm debating.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 23, 2007 9:05:21 GMT -6
in extended cks yes, they do! if caught during the day , and not released till next day, i.e. in trap more than the dark hrs, yes , they do! a 24 hr ck. is in actuality a minutes to 8 hr ck since wild animals are for the most part nocturnal ,and most guys run early and daily. yes, I think it is unethical to NOT run every 24, and the greed of the guys running more than 24 hr terrstrial lines will kill trapping for all of us. every EXCUSE they have is MONEY RELATED ONLY . look what states have lost it, the westen states, the ones that even tho they may have gone to 24 hr cks in the twilight hrs in an attempt to get the horse back in the barn, lost trapping. big ranching states with good agricultural lobbies, but they lost it. why? extended cks so greedy trappers could make more money with less time miles and effort, that`s why. ps, I find it interesting some think that damage is ok , as long as it is not irreverable. tell that to the bird or coon hunter or the pet fi fi`s owner.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 23, 2007 9:21:30 GMT -6
since I'd guess that 98% of the dogs are caught in 24 hour check country, then the majority of dogs would then be unharmed?
irreversable means that if it limps today, then doesn't for the next 10 years- so what.
90% of the farmers whose dogs I catch, don't even know- and never do coon hunters.
and now oyu have opened up another can of worms- longer checks.
To a man that traps coyotes on a 48 hour check, greed might be someone coming out and taking all his coyotes back east for a $125 live market.
I see nothing wrong with a 48 hour check for coyotes, and would do it in a heartbeat if I had conditions and laws that allow it.
first you say coyotes are worthless, and no one should trap them, then you say coyote trappers are greedy, trying to trap more coyotes. make up your mind...
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 23, 2007 9:25:20 GMT -6
oh sheesh, that`s why I won`t argue with you. it`s not a can of worms, it`s reality vs fantasy land.
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Post by z on Aug 23, 2007 9:47:31 GMT -6
Bob, Serious ?, So don't get all freakin' redneck...... ;D Wouldn't compression damage that you always bring up, ALWAYS BE compression damage? Regardless of what was in the trap? The trap is still pinching with same amount of torque, The fight would be meaningless if this was the case....... So now we get back to time in trap, Hmmmmmm....
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 23, 2007 10:11:52 GMT -6
nope, it magnifies with time. it`s directly time related. more time than pressure even, but they are both tied to each other. tissue can live without oxygen or blood for a certain length of time, just like you can hold your breathe for a certain length of time, but after that time, it`s lights out. you ever watch the monday night fights, various choke holds that in time cut off the carotid and the choke-ee passes out, after pass out, death is next, from apoxia of the noggin. same deal as a foot in a trap
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Post by markymark on Aug 23, 2007 10:20:34 GMT -6
So anyway what was the guys question about softcatch pads? ?? Hey Bob I guess Steve arguing with a Vet is like me tell Micheal Dell how to build a computer. On a positive note while hunting birds in TX on a large ranch the Gman used Sterling MJ's with that tape on the jaws that Kasper mentioned. He claimed once a hunter saw that they felt better about him trapping and it was no big deal pinching a 5G dog. Mullins is his first name Robert???
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