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Post by bobwendt on Aug 16, 2007 3:46:37 GMT -6
peat can`t freeze if dry, if you buy it wet, of course it will freeze. that`s why you need to buyit now, not come december or whenever. it is mined wet and then needs dried prior to use. once dried you can`t get it wet again, I mean you can`t makeit get wet as it refuses to take up water, i.e. sheds it, repels it, refuses it, however you want to say it. if a guy gets short in winter I`d suggest gathering pulverized 10-20 year old manure from old tramp sheds and you have basically the same thing as peat. bristle, get your peat right now and you won`t be disappointed. that dirt deal, if it was free , delivered to my door, where do I store the semi? and how do I haul it around? what kind of conveyer belt system should I install to restock the triple axle dump truck each day I`ll need to run the line? kidding of course, but for a full timer the weight just kills the deal.
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Post by mikespring on Aug 16, 2007 5:36:15 GMT -6
Used peat for over 20 years Scott....Bob is 100% right, dried peat will not absorb water..don`t need a pan cover either if your traps are set up with a short throw. Here I get some refusals using peat with coyotes ( fox don`t care) it takes some time to figure out what you can get away with bedding wise but once you figure that out you will do fine using it.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 16, 2007 5:50:39 GMT -6
it`s worse than sunny skys and dry weather, but everything is. in the east we are just rying to stay in business best we can even tho it`s second best no matter the method. when I say peat won`t absorb again, I mean in trapping terms. I`m sure if it laid out long enough ( months) it would indeed get wet again and then freeze. I have pulled sets and come back a year later and the peat be poofy and the surrounding area soup. I know that`s hard to believe. like mike says, you learn to make small beds and such to allow for it is "flaky" to a coyote that may have his antennae on and wiggling.
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Post by 17HMR on Aug 16, 2007 6:51:41 GMT -6
Im with ya Bristleback, I have, in bad conditions, had peat freeze up on me after about 10 days in one spot. I think the moisture comes up from the bottom, waxed papaer in the bottom may have fixed it.
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Post by Wright Brothers on Aug 16, 2007 6:55:24 GMT -6
Got tired of carrying the dirt and peat around. Came up with the bright idea of stashing some near the sets areas for remakes.
Not having it with on remakes has cost me.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 16, 2007 7:11:04 GMT -6
your peat must not have been all dry 17. with peat you should able to find some local dirt under clods or hay bales or in a woods or bank or something, the fistfull top dress is all you need. and you are going to anti freeze it anyway , so no matter if it is damp, as long as you can get it thru the sifter. I can find siftable dirt handy even at 20 below zero, so it`s there.
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Post by Bristleback on Aug 16, 2007 9:36:18 GMT -6
I just find PM spongy.....I've used it off and on over the years....out of necessity.
One reason I SOLD out 100% on my cat and coyote traps a few years ago......replaced them, now all my traps are identical....for speed, simplicity, efficiencies......keeps things streamlined for me. One size trap bed, one pan cover, etc.....
Getting back to the topic......I think keeping your trap bed as small as possible, slightly over sized of your trap "foot print" is key.......for a solid trap....now add PM to this scenario and by keeping your bed as small as possible you can eliminate as much spongy-ness....bed depth can help this too......I'd rather error on the side of too deep than too high......trap not being "recessed' in to the ground.
With WD I don't carry a sifter to the set, if I need to blend, I use my hand or a whisk broom........if I really want to make an invisable set,and that isn't very often, I'll pull out the sifter and sift that final covering from 4-6' above the set......up wind.......let if drift-blow into place......add a little shot of sweetness to the clump of grass, turd, bone.........
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 16, 2007 10:00:06 GMT -6
solid trap. now there is another old wives tale. think how the canines work a freshly plowed or disced field, or if any fresh dug natural hole is solid out front, like a badger or grhog or any other digger varmint, nope.
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Post by Bristleback on Aug 16, 2007 10:10:50 GMT -6
I don't spend 10-15-20 minutes packing my trap, but sure dont want a coyote to step on a lever and the opposite lever come up out of the ground.........agree?
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 16, 2007 10:18:23 GMT -6
yep, but I don`t know how you could do that if you tried. well, unless you packed around waxed #2 rock, lol. just yanking your chain bristle. I bed, just the 1-2 second bed.
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Post by mikespring on Aug 16, 2007 10:23:25 GMT -6
Your on a roll Bob...I agree with your trap bedding technique...I use to waste WAY to much time bedding traps rock solid.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 16, 2007 10:33:36 GMT -6
I saw a deal once where a guy said to buy a dowel rod and spend 20 minutes or so using it as a tamp used with a hammer to pack the dirt down around the trap . must of been a long liner. lol, long line of chit, bwahaha. actually I do bed, just not he bedding the dirthole contest winners do. just enough the animal doesn`t tip it as bristle says. there is a happy medium between hard as a rock and hard enough.
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Post by Bristleback on Aug 16, 2007 11:10:29 GMT -6
Not to get on a tangent........given a coons dexterity.....you guys find if a trap is jacked with, dug, pulled out........it's often times a coon? I sure seem to think so......I just don't see much digging......BUT then again it's prolly due to my traps planted SOOO deep and solid with the new bedding method.....plant them in wet cement......few days they'll be solid as a rock, just playin with ya!
Agree there is a difference between ROCK HARD SOLID and solid and tippy.
Simple question........coyote walks up steps on the edge of your traps......you want the trap to shift, move around?
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 16, 2007 11:36:18 GMT -6
I think most of it is coons and skunks and some of it coyotes. no one likes it , but it`s a trade off to not quit trapping when the soil is bad, or use 2nd choice methods, or the best of the second choicers at a very expensive and labor intensive way. so it just depends what each guys end desires are what he uses. for a volume operator interested in maximum financial return the peat seems to work. as far as the coyote wiggling a trap, he wiggles stuff all the time, so unless he is 2 toed and still remembers the bite, even he couldn`t relate it to a wiggly trap, welll, I dunno. I like to think they all get caught first step in, but I know that`s not true. what I think happens is they just keep messing and messing till finally they by dumb luck step right and get caught. , tippy or not, as long as it isn`t like flipping a coin to call heads or tails and no one wins as it landed on its side. lol, like my old highschool girlfriend, she`d always say if it lands on heads we do it my way, if it lands on tails we do it your way, if it lands on its side we`ll do our homework, and then do it both ways! made for fast homework lessons once I got that side flipping down pat. I made a specisl flipper coin in shop class.
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Post by mikespring on Aug 16, 2007 12:06:48 GMT -6
I don`t think anyone wants their trap moving when a canine is working a set...I don`t
Coons dig up more traps than canines thats for sure and it will happen a little more than your used to using peat...but the trade off for a cheap waterproof bedding material is worth it to me.
Last year was my first year using waxed dirt and it is great...but the small advantage it gives over peat really is so small that this year I`ll be going back to peat...maybe ;D
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Post by musher on Aug 16, 2007 12:19:20 GMT -6
Here's what I've been doing. I dig a small bed, punch a drain hole, glycerin the bottom, peat moss bed trap with waxed paper cover (a la Wendt), a little peat moss on top, cover with a little dirt I dug to make the bed, glycerin the top. This works for a long time.
If I ever have and doubts about a set working, I flip the crust off and redo the top. After I do one or two sets, I have an idea of what the other sets are like. I'll sprinkle a little salt on the crust of the others. The only hassle with that is I actually take a salt shaker with me (we have a couple of them). The wife doesn't know and keeps saying "Were's the salt?"
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Post by mac on Aug 16, 2007 14:24:44 GMT -6
Mr. Bob is right on the money concerning the use and value of peat moss. Been using it a long time and we have conditions that make Indiana look like paradise. (Just kidding Bob) But they really are crappy. I can remember about three nice falls out of 39. Mac
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 16, 2007 15:06:06 GMT -6
peat has problems for sure. hard to impossible to do any bedding, blows and floats away, causes some picking and digging on occasion. but the alternative is worse.
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Post by scott kimball on Aug 16, 2007 15:28:37 GMT -6
Bob and Mike Spring. i know you guys don't bed a trap lap solid and i envy you for having the confidence to do so.but, if a man has not the confidence to do this then he must build the confidence to continuously as you say 1-2 second bed.
please explain how you go about bedding at the set.
mike :what conclusion did you come to.as to why you were getting refusal?
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 16, 2007 15:32:40 GMT -6
throw loose dirt in the bed and wiggle and push down witrh the set trap. if it`s froze 2 feet deep and you chip out with a pic ax, well just do the best you can. or tote dry dirt to do it. eh, mike?
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