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Post by redfeather on Mar 7, 2004 16:41:35 GMT -6
I read about Zagman's concrete drags, and I was wondering what they are, and how to make them?? Thanks in advance.
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Post by Stef on Mar 7, 2004 16:43:44 GMT -6
He'll answer this tomorrow Stef
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Post by redfeather on Mar 7, 2004 18:49:11 GMT -6
Stef thanks - I have started using alot of drags because of the rocky ground I trap, and I am always looking for something better. I currently use logs/big limbs that I find which are bulky and hard to carry on the trapline. So, I am interested in the concrete drags.
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Post by dj88ryr on Mar 7, 2004 20:24:08 GMT -6
I could be wrong, but I think Zags is a truck trapper and that is the reason he can use these concrete drags, by the looks of them, you wouldn't carry them very far, or get many out, without the use of a vehicle. Oh, BTW, Zags also traps in a suit and tie ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Zagman on Mar 8, 2004 5:54:34 GMT -6
I trap a rock quarry where I cannot use stakes. Because there's also a lack of vegetation, I worried about traditional steel hooks finding a home to hook up on.....
So, I made up a bunch of 25#-35# cement drags.....
I used forms made out of heavy plastic,..... I got them for $.25 each at a local fastener distributor.......they are just a rectangle-shaped container.....
I filled them with wet cement and then stuck a 12" piece of chain in them, with the end of the chain in the cement having some type of junk attached to it in the form of a dead man....used #9 wire, junk trap frames, even a couple Berkshire double stake set-ups....something to bite into the cement, though I am sure just the chain alone would suffice.
I took them out to the quarry ahead of season and laid them in the open near the locations I thought I would set.....
When making a set, I just hook my trap chain to the short chain sticking out of the bottom of the drag and just make my set, either using the drag as a backing or side blocking....
I had thought about boring holes into the drag to put lure in and blending a trap in front of it......never did it though..... The coyotes I caught in them went only 25-40 yards.....
If I were to make them again, I would just dig holes/molds into the ground.....the molds I used gave them a neat, smooth, unnatural finish, though that probably only concerned me and not the canines.....
Or, I would throw dirt into molds, gravel, sticks, etc before dumping in the wet cement.....these bare drags "blended" well at the quarry but would stick out like sore thumbs in other applications.
These were made with coyotes in mind, fox or coon will not budge these.
Yes, I trap from my truck but I know ahead of time where I would be using these, and have them out ahead of time.....you could do the same thing.
Make them heavy.....
Zag
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Post by redfeather on Mar 8, 2004 9:49:15 GMT -6
Zag, what are the forms you said you got at a local fastner dist. That same fastner dist. might have a store in Austin near where I am. I need to make myself 2 dozen of these because I trap out of my truck, and I am tired of the bulky logs I am having to use as drags. Thanks.
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Post by Zagman on Mar 8, 2004 10:48:55 GMT -6
it's a local company....dont get hung up on using the exact form I used....you can use anything...I even used some kitty litter buckets but only filled them up 3/4th of the way......
Or, just did a hole in the ground as a form....
Zag
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Post by Clefus on Mar 8, 2004 19:21:25 GMT -6
Zag....ever thought of adding concrete dye ?? It would make em blend in at certain location...
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Post by dj88ryr on Mar 8, 2004 20:02:36 GMT -6
I think it was mentioned once that the right colored dye and shape and you could have cow pattie drags. I believe CowPieDuke may have these in production already.
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Post by Clefus on Mar 8, 2004 20:35:43 GMT -6
DJ....Take some sections of chain out to the local farm.....look for some fresh steaming piles....shove chain in.......let dry several days...whammo...perfect drags ;D Not sure how they will hold up though
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Post by woody on Mar 8, 2004 22:27:11 GMT -6
Hey, Zag, instead of boring a hole, which would make weak spots in the concrete, try using something like a 35mm film canister, or something like that. it would help the crete keep its strength, and would give you a good spot for lure. ;D just a thought, woody
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Post by trappnman on Mar 9, 2004 16:30:21 GMT -6
I have to say I like the idea of concrete anchors (one can't really call them drags LOL).
I thing the idea of digging a mold in the ground would be the way to go- make it more textured, irregular, etc.
Zags- you made yours someqhat square, correct? Is that the way to go- in a rectangular or square shape?
What do you think of a round hole dug for a mound- or oval- so the anchor would be rounded on top and flat on the bottom.
Did you use real concrete or the quick crete stuff?
How much concrete makes 30lbs? In other words- how many anchors out of a bag?
I can see where you would have a"stopper" on the end of the imbeded chain- but like you- don't really think it would be needed. _________________________________________
A guy could get fancy and make a ledge on the side of the anchor about 2-3 inches up- you could then put lure under the anchor. Personally- I would thing I would want to keep the lure smell off of the anchors-
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Post by mike692 on Mar 9, 2004 17:19:27 GMT -6
Just some info from my dad......I ran the idea by him of digging a form in the ground, he said it could work, but to make sure you mix your concrete fairly dry. Otherwise you would have "fun" getting it out of the ground.
I can't wait to see some of the things you guys come up with.
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Post by Zagman on Mar 10, 2004 5:27:52 GMT -6
The only reason mine are square was because I had these parts containers laying around and they fit the bill.
I did not want them round, like a 5-gallon bucket. At this quarry, there are huge drop offs and cliffs and I wanted the coyote to be in control of the drag, not vice versa.
I was putting concrete in a mud room addition and the concrete truck had plenty left over....it was funny, my buddy and the concrete delivery guy were smoothing out my mud room concrete, and I was over in the corner sinking junk chain into my wet cement anchors.
I did not bore the holes in them or put the lure on them for that reason....lure is forever, and I was not always sure the the drag would be the set backing. I wanted no extra attention drawn to them from a lure standpoint.
I have a couple that I buried in sand/shale piles as deadmans, and they are going to stay right there.....probably forever.
I dont really need to hide these animals, I just cant get a stake in anywhere. At the quarry, if they dont move the drag, I dont care.
I have no idea how much cement you need.....I would say my molds are 8 inches deep, 10-12 inches across, and 16-18 inches long....and they are plenty heavy.
If you dig holes in the ground, the reason would be to avoid the smooth look and add some color, texture, bumps, contusions, etc.
If I did it again, I would try that or just throw a bunch of dirt, rocks, sticks, etc in the mold, regardless of mold-type.
Zags
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Post by trappnman on Mar 10, 2004 6:36:50 GMT -6
Wouldn't the sticks, junk etc cause weak spots in the concrete? You would have to be careful to keep the "junk" away from the chain (where it goes in)
To me, the benefit would be in frozen ground trapping. I don't run a lot of traps then, and the anchors would allow changing locations easier.
If you had them somewhat saucer shaped ( like an egg sliced sideways) with the chain coming out of the side so they drag on the flat side, they would look "natural" .
And you could have a couple of colors of concrete dye- giving the rock a mottled effect.
What about rust on the chain? A factor? From year to year?
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Post by Zagman on Mar 10, 2004 7:11:39 GMT -6
I think that shape would be fine. Half an egg...
The dirt and sticks would not be mixed in, just on the outside. Concete dye might accomplish the same thing.
In the end, just like duck decoys, the finish is probably more to please the hunter or trapper than the coyote or duck.
Chain: I used pretty heavy chain, knowing that I would NOT be dyeing the chain in the anchor every year....should be able to get several good years out of them.
I see chain on farmer gates that looks like it has been there for decades....and is still plenty strong.
If it's a concern, I guess one could use short lengths of protected (galvanized, plated, stainless?) chain sticking out, as you dont need much.
I run 18"-24" on my traps, so that gives me plenty to play with. If you run real short chain, you may have to add some to the traps that you are going to hook to the anchor, or run longer chain out of the anchor. You need some wiggle room and dont want it too tight......makes set making more difficult.
Zagman
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Post by trappnman on Mar 10, 2004 7:36:30 GMT -6
I know that in the quarrys you put them out in the summer. Did you move them around some during season?
I'd be real curious as to how quickly they could be brought into use- that is- cold roll an area- throw out the anchors and set up.
Definitely going to make at least a few.
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Post by Zagman on Mar 10, 2004 12:52:58 GMT -6
I put them near my sets but did move them...all of them.
Again, this is a rock quarry, so they "blend".
This is the reason to make them look more natural should you decide to throw one in a recently picked soy bean field....
But, I think you want to use them in frozen ground, and assuming no snow, the blending would be equally important to a degree/confidence builder, etc.
In the snow, just bury it, I guess.
Zag
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Post by trappnman on Mar 10, 2004 13:10:10 GMT -6
they would be real nice at rockpiles also.
I am of the opinion that they would be more of an asset than a hindrance- after all, a visual is a visual- and I often import rocks, etc with no problems to use at the sets. A white rock in a plowed field- perfect!
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Post by dj88ryr on Mar 10, 2004 13:23:47 GMT -6
To expand on that idea, would say a cement drag that was dyed neon green or orange be as good as a visual, or would it have to be a color common to the environment, but contrasting in the predominant color of the area you are trapping?
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