#11's

[trappnman]

I really would like to know WHY people like them.

Not that it is not an adequete trap- it is, but more so I found that for just about every purpose, they were outperformed by most other traps.

I will say this- they are a strong trap and I've seen everything from rats to coyotes caught in them.

But there are other strong traps.

When I used them exclusively water trapping, I found that they 1) did nothing to prevent rat problems 2) certainly did nothing to reduce coon chewing 3) got as many misses as hits with coon 4) got many more misses than hits with otter.

I just don't see any advantage to them, over other traps. And several disadvantages, putting them in a class only slightly higher than a #1.

As a mink, rat trap- probably no worse then similar type traps- but for coon... can't see it with the size of our coon here.

I know somew are thinking- he doesn't like #11 as too small for coon, and yet uses 1.75s on coyotes.

Difference is- a coyotes foot won't span the jaws, and in a #11 a big or even medium coons foot will.

After seeing them perfrom for me, I wouldn't use them again.

Comments?

[netrap]

T-man, thought I would comment on your use of N0.11's. I used to use no.11/2, years ago. I switched to all no.11 since then. The reason I switched is because i ws having so many flipped over traps. I seemed to try about everything to try to remedy the problem. I then bought a dozen no.11's used to try out. I immediately saw a big difference. No flipped over traps at all. That is the reason I sold all my coilsprings and went with all no.11's. In our area years ago we had two big longliners. They used all No.1 ls. in the late 60's early 70's. Then switched to no.11's. They took nearly 1000 coon some years in the no.11's. Personally I like them for coon, and haven't had any trouble with them. I use mine on one way sliders. I trap a fair amount and have taken nearly 500 coon some seasons using them. For what it is worth.

[mustelameister]

WHY? 'Cause they work for me.

I only use these at small-diameter pocket sets. When placed correctly, they only catch front feet on 'coon. When set smack dab in the center of the hole, longsprings jacked forward into the front sides of the pocket, small stick stuck in just on the outside of the dogged jaw, you have a set that forces the 'coon to approach the set from the side or diagonally and placing his front foot in the center to peek into the small pocket. This works for me.

There aren't too many 'coon out there whose front feet will span the jaws of a #11. With the trap locked tight into the front sides of the pocket and wedged into the muck, a 'coon stepping on the jaws with his front foot won't rock the trap out of position.

A #11DJ locked onto a 'coon's foot is not going to come off, at least not on a drowner system.

Then there's the small trap consideration as I explained in the other post. Most 'rats and mink can slide this small trap in unobstructed shallow water until they get into the drowning zone and submerge. Those larger traps cause my 'rats and mink to remain alive in shallow water, exposing them to people, predators and broken legs.

My incidental otter last fall was in a #11 DJ, in a horizontal elbow set, with no bait or lure. Hole was 4" in diameter. Go figure. Not wishing to target otter, I'm not concerned about the #11DJ and trying to catch otter utilizing it.

My brand of preference is the Newhouse #11DJ, a much stronger trap than the Sleepy Creeks I've used in the past.

When I have the opportunity to catch hind feet on 'coon, I do bump up to the #1 3/4 coiled up with #2 music wire coil springs. Blind sets, big pockets, and pipe sets get the bigger trap, providing I can slide that incidental 'rat into deep water.

And the final reason I use #11s? 'Cause they're so cute!

[trappnman]

they hold otter- and also give you otter toenails....

I have to say, I never had a mink or rat that couldn't move a 1.75 or #2 into deep water.

If you were getting flipped traps with a 1.5s and not with a double long spring, then the only reason is your 1.5s were not set stable.

A coil can be set as stable- and every water trap needs to be at least as stable as a land trap. Mink and rats climb over a trap, not step in.

No, a front foot would not span a #11- but most back feet do.

Don't get me wrong- I caught a ton of coon on them- but also had a lot of misses. More so than with any other coon trap. In trail sets, as 99% of my sets were- you simply cannot target front feet with any accuracy.

Heck, I've caught a lot of coon on #1s- and it isn't hard to HOLD coon in them- but once again, with the same size jaws, you get misses-

Even a front foot on a 20+ lb coon needs to hit the trap dead center to avoid being on the jaws.

[td]

In the gravel creeks around here, I can't bed a coil as easy or as well as I can a #11. I have a few coils and only use them when I run out of 11's or there is some mud to bed the trap in. The long springs give me something to push on wo/getting my fingers on the trap and provide a lot more stability. Most are front foot caught and very few snapped or flipped traps. Maybe the difference between using trail sets and pockets with or without bait. Because of all the gravel, most sets are on drags and usually my pockets are shallow or often just some bait smeared on the bank.

I wouldn't trust a #1 to hold a coon on a drag. Yours must be big and weak. Mine are all scrappers. ;D

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman wrote:3) got as many misses as hits with coon . Then wrote:Don't get me wrong- I caught a ton of coon on them-

What?

In trail sets, as 99% of my sets were- you simply cannot target front feet with any accuracy.

OK then why use a #11 for trail sets? I wouldn't use a 1.75 for trail or blind setting coyotes or cats either, I want as big a jaw spread as I am legally allowed to make up for circumstances beyond my control. I want a large jawed #3 for trail setting coyotes or cats.

You had guys tell you they work for them one guy even stated he caught 500 coons in a season I wouldn't call that a hindrance. I think the problem is if used in other forms maybe they would have done better for you.
Just food for thought.

[trappnman]

TC37- if you have read any of my posts, you know WHY I was using the #11 as trial sets.

Doesn't matter to me HOW many coon someone gets in a trap- I've caught 500 and MORE in just plain old #1 in a season.

My main point was the non lack of chewing in them.

Of course they work- and of course many love them- thus my question.

got as many misses as hits with coon . Then wrote:Don't get me wrong- I caught a ton of coon on them-

What?


Seems self explanitory to me. What don't you understand?

Why not tell us YOUR experiences with them?

[trappincoyotes39]

I have none thats why I don't post about them or bash them because I have not used them in any manner myself. I can neither be for or against something I haven't used. I look at what others have done with them and go by what they tell me if credabile.

You sound confused that you had as many misses as catches but yet you caught a ton of coon in them, does that then mean you lost a ton of coon with them as well?

I'm sorry I didn't see your "main" point being chewing, I seen 4 issues about them. Also that can not be a bad trap if people are taking 500 coon a season with them can they? I can not believe those same people are loosing 500 coon a season by using them can you? If you can, then boy I thought we had a ton of coon in Iowa? I should have been trapping other states.

Again do you think the BMP's where faulty and misprinted the truth of findings with this trap?

[BenAround]

I probably shouldn't but here goes-- i like and Prefer a #11 for any set -that plan to target coon -without a drowner--land or very shallow water--i do think coons chew the foot less and the #11 locks up and holds better and in the water they bed easier for me also--now with that said-- i think a good #1 coil would be as effective-- but due to my style and hand size they give me fits setting and bedding --I can catch plenty coon in the # 1Ls as long as i put him on a good brush drag--and give him something to occupy his mind ;D and 1.5 coils will work (But not as well as #11 for coon)--But i know if i put a coon in a 1.75 he probably won't be there after lunch--and a far a mink goes i take a #2dls any day--but maybe i just odd that way--
Thanks ben

[BenAround]

Hey Tman
I did see that you were directing this towards water trapping and i should say i really don't see any great advantaqe to the water for the #11--i said they bed easier for me but i #2dl beds the same--- if i can drown-- i mostly use a 1.5 coils or #2 dls--and with the occasional rufusal or bank snag up-- i have lost very few coon in the larger trap-- ben

[trappnman]

a ton of coon in them, does that then mean you lost a ton of coon with them as well?

if you consider snapped traps losses.


lets keep this in perspective- no one is bashing the trap. Reread my posts.

I personally think it lacks. Thats me. If its all I had to use I'd catch plenty of coon, mink and rats in them. I just like the bigger version- the #2 dls.

I've heard others also say less chewing- I honestly didn't see it and I had to write down the condition of all releases. Most of mine had- minor toe chewing- because after all, it was a report read by non trappers. But minor meant a little more.

Also keep in mind that making small pockets with the trap wedged inside is a good way to use them- but I want more out of a coon trap. Trail sets, woodland pockets, pvc sets, etc- set where front foot isn't possible. I know at least 25% of my coon are caught by the back foot- and I bet my misses are back foot ones (pure speculation for those that adhor speculation) more often than not.

Ben- do you make many woodland pockets for coon? My first year of longlining, I used a bunch of #11- and had nothing but problems trying to pack them solid without clogging them. I found it takes so little to do so. When I was dryland trapping otter with them, I found that (luckily otter are not trap shy) the only way I could make them work effectively, was to not cover the pan at all- I'd just put a few grains of sand on it to break it up a little. The covering just came with up with the trap and stopped the jaws from closing.

[trappnman]

as mentioned on another threas, I love those old cast #2dls.

Do I think the bmps distorted the truth? asked and answered in the bmp thread. please continue this part of this discussion there. thanks.

[oldmink]

Speaking only from a mink trapper's point of view, I would have to say I couldn't possibly make a lot of the sets I do if I used #11s. Their too bulky with those double longsprings. A 1.5 coil sets flatter and fits in a much tighter space than the 11s. I do know many mink trappers use them and love them but maybe they trap under different conditions than myself or they may not make the type sets I do.

If you want to discuss using the 11s for coon, let me say that a number 1 ls has a 4 inch jaw span. Let me see, what's the jaw span of a 11? For course, Einstein!

If a coon's big old hind foot comes into contact with a trap with a 4 inch jaw span most likely you've just scared the bejebbers out of a coon and won't be needing your skinning knife. You will catch precious few coon by the hind foot in a #1 or 11 trap. Sure most coon trappers target the front feet but coon aren't dainty steppers or prancers like canines. Coon are sloppers and drippers and come a-rooting and almost any part of his body is apt to come into contact with the trap. Hence the wise coon trapper is ready for anything, front foot or hind foot.

[trappincoyotes39]

When I water trapped and used alot of #2 DBL's I caught way more than 95%+ didn't keep hard records by the front feet, the sets: alot of pockets and under root sets made for alot of front footed coons, I didn't worry about back footing coons, dry land yep caught alot of them by a back foot but water trapping nothing I worried about by any means. I also had very few snapped traps with the #2's some where pesky beaver but I would guide coons as well, also the "sandwich" I used alot worked great at catching coons and mink, 2 decent rocks set shallow water and a nice fishy bait between the 2 rocks and coon lure on top by placing these in the right spots you can dictate the coon gets caught by a front foot.

[thebeav2]

The reason I don't own any #11s is that they are a one dimensional trap (water sets only) And I can't see any reason to have 4 or 5 different types of traps when I can catch every mink and rat and coon that comes along with the larger 1.75. Then i can take that 1.75 and catch cats fox and coyotes. not the best trap for all those critters but better then a #11.
Most rats and mink are caught high on the leg even as high as the shoulder sometimes both legs,no wring offs.
I'm sorry but you will miss some mink and rats with the #11s small kill area.Give me that large pan on the 1.75.
Love em or hate em, I don't own any and don't need em.

Gary

[fishadict]

The 11 is a holder. I only have a few and they have held everything that has stepped in them. However, if I had the snapped trap percentages that I have seen from others, mine would be gone tomorrow.

With that said, my preference is for the 1.5 or 1.75 coil in the water for mink, rats, and coon - bigger spread - more universal. I have no problems with either size coil in the streams that I trap on.

fa

[netrap]

I might add to my first comments on the no.11. I use them strictly for water sets for coon. I have very mink and rats in my area. I have my share of snapped traps but less than I did with the coilsprings. I have taken a lot of coon by the hind foot. No problem. I also caught two medium size coon in a no.11 at the same time. They were on a drowner and both had a front paw in the trap. One was alive the other dead. Of course no camera, and being 18 miles from home, I wasn't going back to get it. I feel that you should use what ever works for you and you feel comfortable with using. Every area is a little different and sometimes requires different tools to get the job done.

[trappnman]

netrap- I'll tell you a tip I got from Gary Armstrong- and that is to place your trap so the dog is out, and put a pencil sized stick into the bottom right next to it tight on the outside of the jaw. Leave it stick up 3-5 inches. I read this, said, yeah, didn't try it for years.

Once I did- I kicked myself from not doing it the first time I knew of it.

Its use is that dramatic in cutting down snapped traps.

[netrap]

T-man, I learned the same trick from the same book. But thanks for thinking of it. That is one of the better books I might also add.

[trappnman]

and you still get a fair amount of snapped, flipped traps?

When I started using them, plus rocks next to traps on gravel, clear streams, mine went down to almost nothing.