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Post by trappnman on Mar 27, 2006 17:12:20 GMT -6
if in your area, people are taking 150 mink a week in pockets- then the mink numbers are there and I could do the same.
don't get me wrong- to build up a line of 150 mink a week- you need to know your territory over years- but creek for creek- without a doubt.
down here- 150 mink is more than I've ever taken starting 1 month after the opening day guys take all the family groups, and 100 is a season.
No, I don't believe for a minute pocket set men get more- well, guess thats semantics- as I use a lot of pocket type sets...many, many of my blind sets are blind indentations of pockets...so lets leave out "pockets" and say lured or baited sets.
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Post by Stef on Mar 27, 2006 17:57:57 GMT -6
Its funny because in my part of the country all novice I believe start and started with blind sets. We have ice early. Snow early. Guys use a lot of snares. (cheap)
You see my point?
It was like that when I learned trapping when I was a teenager and I bet that +75% of the beginner in my part of the country do the same as I did now.
I believe that behind all great trappers... They are all good blind setters.
Stef
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Mar 27, 2006 18:03:38 GMT -6
I get a lot of satisfaction out of using blind sets.
Joel
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 27, 2006 18:25:11 GMT -6
it is really satisfying to know where an animal will step before he does it. folks ask how can I catch a whatever and I say, just make him step on this silver dollar, lol. the one in the middle of that 20,000 acre pasture, see over yonder by the little wrinkle in the draw.
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Post by scott kimball on Mar 27, 2006 21:10:34 GMT -6
it is really satisfying to know where an animal will step before he does it. bob i am not contradicting you in any way,but you knew where that animal was stepping long before you placed the BLIND set where you did .or you would not have placed it there./quote]
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Post by rk660 on Mar 28, 2006 1:10:50 GMT -6
Ive play with blindsets more and more every year. In Wy, where I had a number of mink to work with, I preferred a blindset to a pocket set when given the opportunity. A vertical bank, or one that can be cut down readily, on the bank that was more appealing to mink, was a more sure fire set than a pocket. On coons, I'll use blindsets after a week or so when I feel the residents may be getting a little wise to pockets. Ive had pockets go dead for 2 or so checks, thrown in a couple good blindsets and catch more coons. Sometimes if I know johnny sneak um is on the prowl in a given area, I'll run all blindsets for coon to keep my profile as low as possible. On canines and to a greater degree cats, Ive come to appreciate a good blindset when the opportunity presents itself. Where cattle are a problem, a good blindset with no smells sometimes is the best option to keep cattle sprung traps to minimum. Once you begin to look at cats somewhat like mink, and take advantage of their edge hugging tendencies, a whole new world of set locations presents itself. And after taking Joel B advice on uncovered traps, the cat's foot can been guided with ease when that edge hugging habit presents itself along the line. On beaver, and rats for that matter, blindsets are a staple, under ice den setting, snares on slides, traps on slides, dams, and feeding stations, conibears on all above and set in probable choke or forced travel ways that are narrowed by terrain features, or just good high % visitation locations such as smaller feed creeks coming into the main creek or river, blindsets will be a staple.
But to limit oneself to blindsets only would be to limit your catch to a large degree on any species, including water animals that are more routinely blind set trapped. A good blindset on any animal, offers about the best catch % as you will find, after you have the guiding mechanics figured out. But how many times does a given chunk of ground offer enough blindset opportunities to be your only needed method of harvest? I'd be missing a lot of fur if to rely on blindsets only. Its another trick in your bag to capitalize on when the situation presents itself. If Ive got a 1/2 mile or river to trap, and this 1/2 mile only has one nice ledge where I can make some mink blindsets, am I going to limit myself to blindsets only, heck no. I'll make do with what Ive got and use some pockets, maybe some rock sand which sets or a fish staked down 1/2 in 12/ out of water on a flat bank, guided as needed. If the main coon trail is 2-4' above my water, will I use a blindset and just hope they will eventually run the water, no way, I do what I need to do to get them down to water via a bait or lure.
Here is a scenario on beaver, lets say we have a dammed up creek, and water is up against steep vertical banks to where you've got a 4-8' ledge down to water, and water is however deep straight down up to your neck. you cant reach the dens, although you see about where they are are at. Few if any feed trails present themselves since they are feeding on feed bed or roots coming out of steep banks, maybe they climb steep bank here and there, gnaw off a sapling, but no real good logging trails to set. Maybe one or two grassy banks you can actually reach to set, but no feed stations or slides to set. Maybe one old bank marking here that looks like it hasn't been touched in a couple weeks. So what options do you have left? We've got the dam, a couple of grassy banks the only place to access the water which have limited sign, and the headwaters a 1/4 mile away from the colonies main activity. Now the dam, sure you can catch a few beaver's off of, but at times in spring they may not be too overly concerned with dam. Experience also tells us that although a good dam crossing will get us a few beavers, your not going to depend on it to get the bulk of them. No matter what you do, its hard to get all/most of them with just a few dam blindsets many times. We can go up where the creek narrows and put in some conibears, but since its a month past ice out, they just ain't traveling to the fringes of their territory every night, so relieing on some channel set up here ain't gonna cut it in a week's time. We've got the old dried out castor mound on the sloped bank to work with, maybe pick one up in a week here. So what do we do. We can put in some bait stick sets w/ no lure on the grassy banks we can get to, and we can run a few castor sets too. We know from experience not to use any castor on bait sets since once the gig is up on castor, it just ain't gonna work so hot, we can also add a few beaver oil on a stick sets on these flat banks. So we blind set our dam with a couple conibears and add a castor mound on corner, on the grassy bank we put 2 bait stick sets w/ no lure to keep natural, and a beaver oil set. Beings its a 50 yard walk to headwaters where we can fence a conibear we just forgo it for time being as we have about 6 good sets in now. After a week most of the 2 year olds and y.o.y. have fallen for the bait sets and dam crossing, and we got the male at the castor set. We are happy with getting the magority of them exept the old sow and maybe a straggler 2 year old she is keeping close watch on. Maybe we want ALL of them dead for whatever reasons, to make for better water level for coon trapping next year, to keep our farmer happy, or just because we want to prove to our selves we can get every single one. So we see from weather forcast a rain is expected and we know it will move the beaver. So we pull out our ace up our sleeve and hike up to tail waters and drop in one 330 and one 660 as natural as we can on a couple of choke points where creek narrows. We get our old lady, and the last kid dies since no one to keep tabs on him any more. Now you may be thinking this is a situation that really doesn't come up much, where sign setting options are this lacking, but on these steeper sided creeks in this country, its actually not that rare of an occurrence. Many times good blind sets just aren't available in enough volume to catch most of the beaver, and something else must be used to make up for the lack of blindset opportunities. Maybe we can drive one side of creek, and most all good blindset spots are on other side of creek that required a 1" from top of chestwader crossing each check, and we would rather not cross, so we use lured and bait sets on the side we have to work with, could have done just as good on blindsets on sign, but we just saved ourselfs a pile of time and grief in form of 38 degree water running over our gonads on the occasion that the chestwader tippytoe crossing didnt fair so well.
Ive seen the same thing on rats, mostly on rivers. Dens on our rivers are almost impossible to find to catch many of the rats available. Feedbeds and loaf beds with legholds are the best options. Sometimes these feedbeds are in a root ball that are about impossible to set and keep rat from tangling up in the multitude of roots in front of them, or acess is just too difficult to mess with. Now knowing the rats will be hugging the bank when traveling to this feed bed, we can dig a pocket, lure or bait with something green, or use a clamshell, and pick up most of the rats that will be swimming right by it, at a much more convenient spot to set.
Blind sets are great when they present themselves, or animal travel is known and our trap site can be modified to use an effective blindset, but to limit yourself to just blindsets is, in effect, to limit your setting opportunities, number of sets in a given area, and, in the finale count, limit you overall catch in a given amount of time, no matter what species you are pursuing.
All this being said, most any blindsets can be improved with say a turd for a stepping guide, a little urine on grass next to cowpath, a finger hole poked into bank with a dab of lure in it, or maybe a few fresh bait sticks on a beaver slide. What snare set up isnt greatly improved with a few carcasses thrown into weed patch or having our snares (blindsets) in vicinity of a cow carcass.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 28, 2006 6:06:13 GMT -6
While baited sets might be eaaier- and they often are because they can be put where you want them- which is why I do indeed use both lured and baited set- I disagree with the lack of blind sets on colonies. If there is a dam, feeding ledges, anything- I'l lfind all the blind sets I need both with 330s and footholds. Any dam- I can get across w/little difficulty-
On open streches of long water, without any dams, feed areas, etc- YES, this is the exception I''ve mentioned all along. Lured sets do work better in this scenerio.
On rats- if there is any quiet spot, any place to get out of the current, any vertical bank, and structures, basically anything except sheer concrete was- you will take the rats just as quick. I've never seen any situation- big rivers, big marshes, small creeks and ponds- where blind sets don't work.
On rats and mink- any indentation, made at the right location- IS the blind set. No lure or bait needed.
On rats- IMO lure is a waste of time and money. Not that it doesn't work- it surely does- but there isn't a rat in the world I won't catch just as quick with a blind set.
Now mink- early seaosn I feel lure and bait works- but not needed and too early and coo nare ap roblem. When lure and esp bait really pay off for mink- is when it gets super cold- below zero nights, single digit days. Thats when to start luring and throwing out rats.
But even so- blind sets still work just fine. But on late season mink its a waiting game, and a moving mink then is a hunting, hungry mink- and you do get a bump becasue with snow and ice- you start getting more mink working under the snow on the banks, hunting brushy areas, etc- so bait and lure can and do draw mink. I've seen mink running on top of snowy banks that come right down them to the set- yet, they might have come there anyway cause the set was in "the" spot.
Many seem to think that pockets automactically mean bait/lure. and thats not close to how it is. Pockets, in many shapes, natural and made are excellent blind sets.
Key in blind setting- is knowing the habits of an animal and knowing what the MAJORITY of the animals do the majority of the time.
I do feel, and even more so after tihs thread, that blind setting is something older trappers do more so than younger ones. Perhaps its starting out that way, perhaps its knowledge gained over the decades, perhaps a combo of these and more.
Please keep in mind- I'm not saying that blind sets are better- this whole thread derived from having to defend the statement that LURED sets were better.
I think for simple animals like beaver, mink and rats- that one could do like my dad and all the old river trappers around here used to do- and just blind set and have equal numbers at the end of the year.
Let me tell you a little true story. When I was 16, and the first year I moved away from the marshes to the big city, my dad and a friend went back to trap the marsh opening weekend. We each set traps. Because of experience level, my friend went first, I followed him (we were trapping a narrow back channal), and my dad came behind.
After setting, we looked back on each others sets, and my friend and I laughed at my dads sets.
Setting places we would NEVER had set a trap. Places thatr looked so forlorn, we couldn't help laughing. My dad just smiled.
Next day, my dad had the most rats- by far.
He knew the river, knew rats and knew what he was doing.
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Post by mustelameister on Mar 28, 2006 9:55:37 GMT -6
IMO, there is no substitute for learning blind set locations for the aquatic critters than to hide along an active riverbank and observe for yourself. Doesn't hurt to take notes, or, if you've got the equipment, to videotape the comings and goings of 'rats, mink and beaver.
Early mornings and just before dark are prime times. Or, stay through into the night and anchor along one bank and redlight the opposite shore and observe.
Successful blind sets are higher up on the "atta boy" scale for me over baited/blind sets. I can set more blinds than baited, and I have few people problems with blind sets.
And of course 'coon are another thing on the river, as mentioned earlier.
Good posts above.
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Post by SgtWal on Mar 28, 2006 16:48:30 GMT -6
Many, if not most, of todays trappers learned from videos, books, and demos. All of which concentrate on the artificial set. Most are written by lure, supply, or method salesmen after all. All push location and preach lure and bait to"call in" the critters. The only commonly talked about blind set is the bridge or culvert set for mink. Too bad.
Wayne
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Post by BK on Mar 29, 2006 17:35:57 GMT -6
So then Trappnman, would you say Gerald Schmitt would do better with blind sets?
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Post by trappnman on Mar 29, 2006 17:42:06 GMT -6
Yes, Gerald could certainly do as well blind setting. I believe he is as good a mink man as there is. But the disadvantage of blind sets- is more time at the location.
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Post by BK on Mar 29, 2006 19:02:35 GMT -6
Well if Gerald thought so wouldn't that be what he did then? I wish he would come on here right now and set the record straight. ;D
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Post by trappnman on Mar 29, 2006 19:36:28 GMT -6
BK- have you ever talked to Gerald and know how he runs his lines? If so, you will know why he prefers pockets. I hinted at it in my last post, but you must have missed it.
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Post by BK on Mar 29, 2006 20:05:24 GMT -6
Nope, never talked to the Man, but I don't think you or me or perhaps anyone could walk far enough to make blind sets that would equal his catches.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Mar 30, 2006 15:39:57 GMT -6
But the disadvantage of blind sets- is more time at the location.
I got the hint Steve. . For what little its worth I dont think that Gerald would have taken 700+ or fossil taking little over 800 using blind sets.
If I havent already I will give it to you that one blind set wont take more animals than a good lured or baited set(dont think anybody calls a pocket a blind set).
So why dont I think he would have caught 700 mink or beaver men in northern MN wont kill 3-500 beaver in open water using a lured set.
Blind sets require more time at the location.
More time spent = less traps set in a day/season.
Less traps set in a day/season=less fur.
Men in Geralds, Wendts, rks, psbs caliber and others(guys that put up staggering#'s) all have one thing in common. They use an effiecient set, ie dirt holes and pockets, that require less time at a location.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 30, 2006 18:31:48 GMT -6
Depends where you are.
Gerald has a 2 week season.
I have a 3 month season.
There are only so many mink.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Mar 30, 2006 23:17:28 GMT -6
[Depends where you are.
Gerald has a 2 week season.
I have a 3 month season.
There are only so many mink/i]
When the weather Gods shined on Gerald his catch went from 300 to 700 and a good few more.
The numbers of mink in Mn are almost endless if you want to expand your territory and the weather cooperates.
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Post by Rally Hess on Mar 31, 2006 2:26:25 GMT -6
Just to be ornery Steve, I'll vote baited, hands down. My reasoning be that I believe we catch both water and land animals about 90 % of the time while they are in pursuit of food. Wether it be a oppossum headed to a persimon tree, coon headed to corn, beaver to poplar, coyotes to calving area, muskrat to a feedbed, or mink to a deep pool filled with chubs, they are all baited areas. We may not have put the attractant there, but they are still bait/lure. If I snare a fox that is trailing to a road killed deeror scavenging perch thrown out on the ice, it's still bait. If I get between them and an attractant I didn't place, it's still a blind set too. He He
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Post by trappnman on Mar 31, 2006 4:53:18 GMT -6
Its not a vote- trap how you want to.
My reasoning be that I believe we catch both water and land animals about 90 % of the time while they are in pursuit of food.
Agreed. BUT- with beaver, mink and certainly rats- easy enough to predict WHERE they will go LOOKING and more importantly- EATING that food.
Coon, cooytes, even possum- aren't the same.
For me.....
NOW- if someone would tell me after 40-50 years trapping opossums, coon and coyotes that they do as well in blind sets as lured sets- like JC says- I'd believe him.
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Post by Rally Hess on Mar 31, 2006 16:43:24 GMT -6
Steve, I think you missed the jist of my post. I contend I am thinking exactly like JC. I think you may be thinking small picture here. By using a baited pocket the road trapper is attempting to bring the mink or coon to an area that allows them easy or legal access. They are counting on being able to get out alot of sets to increase their odds of connecting at a location that is easy to check and legal to be without alot of permissions. A blind setter may be doing the same thing, but uses no bait or lure and sets the animal where it walks or travels, from sign, or pinch points, trails etc. Both are waiting for the animal to be in that area. The bait trapper wants to bring the animal to the set by way of a odor or sight attracter. The blind setter is attempting to catch them where they have been or will be. The objective is the same the manner in which either attempt to achieve it is the only difference. I would contend that a large carcass pile or dead deer is the same as a pocket set lured or baited. The objective is the same, to put steal between the critter and the attractant, or place steal while it is enroute to an area which has some appeal.The distance between the steal and the attractant is the only difference to my way of thinking. As a snareman I would prefer the snare is farther from the attractant for coyote than beaver, but really the same thing.
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