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Post by trappnman on Dec 30, 2006 8:40:24 GMT -6
Interesting on how we arrive on methods. I learned beaver trapping with footholds- using the old Triumph #3- a good beaver trap btw. Using footholds, found beaver trapping to be no harder than rat trapping. Sure, we might have pinched a few- that always happens, but with single digit limits back then, it didn't matter.
Then conibears came into use. For runs and bank dens (yes, I set up bank dens- it doesn't get easier for stream beavers) a 330 can't be beat. At and along the sides of dams, at castor sets... a 330 was quick and easy.
BUT...you do get refusals. Square shy is no lie at times.
I deal with a exploited population. By the time I get to the water, most of the little beaver spots have been hit hard by the opening day boys.
I found it quicker and easier to set up blind sets, subtly lured sets with footholds. Not saying its better...its just that 10-12 years ago I turned that corner to where footholds are my trap of choice- although I do of course use a few 300s for beaver.
And as a trap of choice- I found that slides are one of the worse places to set up- sure you get beaver, but lots of misses ie snapped traps and "pullouts".
I found much more reliable was to set in shallower water- and to set in situations where a beaver would not be swimming, would not be dragging stuff....but would be walking and more to the point RESTING.
I use natural pullouts/eating/resting areas, but more often then not, the water I want for drowning isn't easily accessible. So I don't hesitate. I go to a suitable area next to a deep, sharp drop off- and cut a semi circle into the banks just wide enough for a big beaver to fit into. I make it 12-18 inches deep- sounds like work but takes less than a minute. Make a ridge i the front, and make a trap bed at the rear so trap is lower. I use #4 dls, springs and dog cocked to the back. I generally use a few guide sticks. Shot of lure on back of bank- and its a deadly set that gives me very, very few misses and no wringoffs or twistouts.
12-12 foot drowning cable- with good slider- and why would you have any twistoffs. A front leg is fragile on a beaver- and a sharp jawed, over powered trap is going to break that bone just like it will on a muskrat- and then yes, you might have a twist off. A stock #4 victor is just about the right trap. Doesn't break the bone and no beaver is going to power out of it.
as someone said- its no trick to get a beaver to step in a trap with a front foot.
and please- don't construe this to mean front foot is BETTER- because of course it isn't.
And neither is the back foot catch superior.
Its just TWO DIFFERENT methods to accomplish the same goal.
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Post by thebeav2 on Dec 30, 2006 9:20:03 GMT -6
And no one has mentioned snares.Very effective In the right situations It takes a little more work to set up a drowning situation but you can. And with a more open bank I have let them crawl up on the bank and just sit there. I've hung snares and 330s on the sides of trees out In swamps where you really don't have defined banks but you have beaver. A little castor smeared on the tree trunk will get the beaver swimming around the tree and you got him. A little guiding will help.
We as trappers adept to our locations and situations there Is no wrong way and no right way It just what works for you. Look at all the information that has been discussed here, any trapper reading this Info can try different methods and see what will fit their situation.
The reason you find more sign on the down stream end of a Island is because the animal has more control when swimming against the current then with the current so It makes It easier to land at that point. Like airplanes taking off into the wind more control. Now If you have no current It's a crap shoot as to where the most sign will be. There may be other reasons but that's one.
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 30, 2006 11:26:15 GMT -6
I posted ,"if you can snare legal, then throw away all your traps."
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Post by martyb on Dec 30, 2006 12:20:03 GMT -6
I could sure cover a lot more ground, a lot cheaper with snares.
Is there any down side to beaver fur value when using snares?
Or is that another old wives tale like:
"Antelope meat Sucks"
"There's giant catfish at the base of the dam."
" These city guys came out and shot a trunk load of meadow larks thinking they were quail."
" I'm going to make a better coon bait in my kitchen with overpriced grocery store ingredients."
A 100 snares , even on drowners would weigh and cost a fraction of what a 100 no.5's, or 330's would cost.
I would like to hear what the experienced fur sellers have to say about snares and fur value for beavers. pro's and con's
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Post by ScottW on Dec 30, 2006 12:45:17 GMT -6
ColdSteel, You mention 330's.....since the topic is front footing beavers.....I'd go with belisles for front footing beavers in 330's! lol Couldn't resist. On a serious note regarding 330's, I've been adding to my 330 collection every year because as you mentioned they work great. As steve said, you will have some refusals with 330's that you likely wouldn't have with footholds, but how many is arguable and will vary from beaver to beaver area to area. The main reason I like footholds in the spring open water season here....especially at the end of spring beavering when the fur is really starting to get brittle is with 330's you will almost always have a noticeable "330 mark" where many of the guards are gone or broken whereas with a foothold, you won't get that mark. This is especially the case with smaller beaver (wish I could avoid many of them) that are suitcased and have both jaws on em'. Also, our foothold check time is 3 days when it's a drowning set, the same as conis for us.
I forgot to mention, in my experiences front footin' the beaver like I try to isn't foolproof. I catch many beaver that do not approach the set as I hope and end up getting caught in a back foot. If there is a situation where I REALLY want to catch em' by the front foot due to water depth, these are the location I definitely use the poke sticks.
On the snare note, I wanna start experimenting with them at castor mounds more, I know they're a definite tool I should be using more. Happy trapping. ScottW
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 30, 2006 12:56:25 GMT -6
snares damage the fur. the bigger the cabler the less the damage. if you can drown him right away. about the same as a 330. if you can tail or foot snare them, none. and I`ve done all the above, lol, even if by accident more than on purpose! beavers are bulls and I believe you could 1/4" cable snare them, but I use all 1/8th as they are my coyote snares too. tuny cable and a live beaver is real bad news, near cuts them in half.
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Post by foxtrapperwoman on Dec 30, 2006 15:37:08 GMT -6
I skinned that beaver last night, no where near prime yet. Since the term " first day boys" was mentioned, it bothers me that some just have to go trap the first day on an animal that may not be prime opening day or opening month for that matter, instead of waiting till spring beaver. An animal that is such a pain to skin and put up compared to muskrats and foxes, and even coons, and yes more work to me also than an otter and even scraping a coyote. An animal that is graded by underfur and how thick and dense it is, and if its early caught gets graded a 2 or 3, which in my parts is a 10-15.00 beaver at best. I mean this beaver I skinned last night was just a bit thicker than those nuisance ones I caught in august . A 36 pound beaver. The guy who trapped it, I don't fault him, he was removing a nuisance animal. What I don't get is the trappers going for fur who just have to set first day when the season opens too early.
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Post by furman on Dec 30, 2006 15:45:47 GMT -6
foxtrapperwoman
My fall early fall beaver averaged $28.00 on Furharvesters one sold for $48.00. I trapped them the first week in November
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 30, 2006 15:49:19 GMT -6
stef making a 25 dollar beaver 10 one is bad, catching a jan $400 dollar cat in november for $35 is a hanging offense, but all across the central states they do it every year, in fact more junk caught than good stuff. it basically has ruined the cat market for anything with a central tag as buyers whether conscious or not grade a cat on it`s state tag first and by fur last. theyare so used to seeing ks or neb or mo flattys that they automatically think junk flat before even looking. that is the trappers fault. G-R-E-E-D
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Dec 30, 2006 17:41:54 GMT -6
I dont know about anywhere else in the us. But I know here.
Here fall beaver will average about the same as spring.
Why?
Several reasons. One is little to no damage. Another is spring beaver are past their prime and starting to degrade fast. The main one? Fall beaver are use au natural. Shearing or plucking is expensive.
On that note, I very seldom trap a beaver before the 10th of November, wich up here they are getting good by then.
I'll stick my neck for saying this but leave the snares in the shed unless under ice. And if you are going to use them do like Doc says and use bigger cable like 3/32 or 1/8.
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 30, 2006 18:25:28 GMT -6
49er, you`re about as close to the north pole as steph is to the equater. I`ve caught a few old monster beavers that went 80 inches and had hide like a horse and about as much fur as a august horse hide too. those oldies i don`t think it matters when you catch them, just p poor. also caught a starving one once that his teeth had grown up and into the upper jaw. his guts were full of algea he was sucking down trying to live on. anyway, his fur wasn`t worth a chit either. maybe stephs was a sick one, lol, last stages of beaver aids or something. I`ve floated the white here in indiana for beaver and the indianapolis chit plant dumps the heated water into it at indianapolis and the river won`t freeze over even at minus 20 degrees for maybe 25-30 miles downstream. those beaver there never prime up either, about like a florida beaver. it sure is fun floating a river at minus 20 degrees . falling in, or tipping the canoe is a beetch tho. I did it once and had to do the wild indian nude dance around the fire to dry the clothes enough to survive. sounds funny but it was some serious stuff at trhe time. at minus 20 your finger tips turn white in front of your eyes. taking a dunk then can be fatal. I always have a dry blanket in a waterproof plastic bag with matches and lighter and starter sticks of wax and cardboard and it is strapped into the canoe so I don`t lose it even on a tip. always wire all the gear to the gunwhales too. learned that losing ten 330s one year in deep rapids. had another dunk and near dieing going under a 1/4 mile long log jam one year. pa. larry save my life that time or I wouldn`t be here now. he scampered out on the jam like a rhesis monkey after a banana and got me a rope seconds before I sucked under. lord only knows what was under that jam of trees and logs and debris or when or if they would have ever recovered my body. oh well, I`m here now! anyone remember joe holycross? we took a dunk on a spring line once on the white ,and paddled like madmen to the get out and safety of warmth. both of us were shaking so bad from hypothermia neither of us could hold a cup of hot coffee. looked like 2 drunks with the d.t`s. come to think of it this trapping has been a little, well, I dunno, you know what I mean.
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Post by foxtrapperwoman on Dec 30, 2006 21:30:39 GMT -6
Can't comment on Iowa beaver in nov/dec, but I know the northern states and Canada prime up ealier, or at least have thicker fur even if the leather is bluish. Your nov/dec beavers likley look like my feb ones do. I am griping about trappers in my region and other similar regions. Here we have open water most of the winter, so feb beaver trapping can be done usually. Ice conditions are always thinner ice, so we can't do the chainsaw thing LOL, so we just wait for thaw which is maybe the next week. PA is part of my gripe, every year reading about these guys who set early and other trappers who set early because of them. If its in- season adc or to get a few furs with the kids that you intend to have tanned or the kids can sell to buy some more traps, that I can understand, but if trapping is a part time business for an adult trapper, then I just don't get it. PA muskrat and mink season also makes no sense, and MD making beaver and otter open dec 15 also makes no sense. The PA opener on mink/rats is OK for the northern part of the state, and I can handle it statewide as both are part prime by then, with a few already pretty prime ( mink at least), but the closing date stinks. I have put up some rats this week from PA, some are fully prime, and some have a 1/3 's blue line down the middle of the back, which I assume means its near prime, but not quite. Season ends in about a week, just when I am getting going! My friend and I have found a bunch of rats this year in PA, but I am a fox trapper and foxes come first, I just don't get into water trapping early- due to primeness issues! Fox on nov 1 are doable for me, I have a nitch market, but I still dislike the flatter fur. However muskrat, mink and coon, and beaver as well, I just can't sell these to the taxidermy market, that market is a glut.
Well I guess I will have to find the motherload of muskrats in MD and can keep at the not so good this season mink trapping ( they are really being slippery footed this year) in Md too, I have till march 15, and my buyer pays same for a march buck mink as a dec one, I assume the underfur is the issue, his buyers must be the shearing types. Muskrats that late, hmm I dunno, but at least in MD I can trap them in feb.
Back on beaver, I had some REALLY nice ones last season, in feb, graded #1's, 25.00 beaver. Not many blanket sized here, these were xxl or whatever is under a blanket ( 60-64"). I had 1 tanned to sell to someone who wanted 1 and that hide was beautiful when it came back, good underfur and nice guard hairs, nice dark color. Not as thick as a northern beaver, but darn good for this region.
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Post by mustelameister on Dec 30, 2006 23:08:05 GMT -6
When using footholds, I target the hind foot of a beaver about 99% of the time to avoid 'coon.
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Post by rk660 on Jan 1, 2007 2:25:12 GMT -6
Not taking anything away from what anyone above said, but I have found front leg trapping to be a 75% or better deal if following conditions are met.
1. Aproach MUST be coming up from deep water, you need like 45 degree angle of aproach on bottom. Beaver will drop front feet on steep aproach in a very predictable manner when coming up to bank from deep water. When they come up sliding into shallow water, say 1 ft deep 2-5 ft. dp, whatever, is when they plow into bank with chest. Most all methods imployed to drop their feet meet in failure, ie, pointed sticks to hit chest, or anything else i've heard of, % rates drop to less than 50%.
2. Water depth- need to dig bed down 4-6" deep coming off sharp drop, run 1-4" they will still plow bank with chest and spring most traps
3. Proper trap size. Seems using bigger traps, to the point of rear foot size, wil keep % up. Large square jaw no 3 coils at bare minimun, better yet, a light weight large coil like a 5 Brig seems to net the best results. Higher the catch up on the leg above that easly separated ankle, goes a long ways to reducing wring offs, also think lamination plays a big part in keeping ankle separation down to a mim also. Last spring I saw no 5 brig coils perform to nearly perfection in this scenario. Deep water approach, deep drowning depth, and keeping trap around 4" or more deep.
4. Drowning depth-from what Ive seen, if you want to keep your beaver on front foot catch w/o undo wring offs, you need to slide them to 4 ft water minimun, get him pulled under water and drown, if too shallow and he can keep poking nose and getting gulp of air, he will stay alive long enough to risk a wring off. You can keep a beaver alive w/o wringing on hind foot for some time with proper traps, but front footing requires drowning fast to assure a consistant catch ratio.
Anyhoo- I have no doubts that you CAN slide wire or drowing rod your beaver w/o undo losses provided certain perameters are met. Shallow approached, dont waste your time, you wont get them to drop feet consistantly enough that sprung traps will make it a waste of time. If a beaver is feeding on a shallow approach, never again will I waste my time setting on that spot for him, move on down the bank where approach is more in your favor, and use a bait stick, lure set, whatever, to bring him in on more favorable terms. Shallow approach usually means too shallow drowning depth also, get to steeper bank, where water drops off deeper. use a big enough trap to get above their fragile ankle joint, this goes a long ways to reducing wring offs in itself, and is very much complemented by use of lamination.
a good beaver man uses ALL tools availeble to catch his beaver depending on cards delt. Many times, its just makes more sense to sucker them through a conibear trap, using blind sets, and/or wider traps to get job done, other times you need a large trap and go for the hind foot, and still other times, the easyest way to to slide them down off feed trails, bait sets, or loafing spots that have all the conditions favorable to a front foot catch.
A smart beaver guy uses any of the above to get dead in back of truck as needed.
7ears ago, I thought trying to conibear beaver w/o having a lot of dens to set was a waste of time.
10 years ago, I thought leghold trapping beaver was a waste of time, until I started using larger traps capable of catching beaver by hind foot.
4 years ago, unless I had perfect conditions for a hind foot catch using large leghold traps, I thought trying to front catch beaver was a waste of time.
Now, having listened, tried new traps/methods, learned when and where what will work, and what wont work, I can utilize many more higher % methods to catch beaver in a variaty of situations. I used tobox myself in to many "this or that wont work"
Never make fatal mistake of thinking you know it all, as once youve locked yourself into a "you cant do this" box, you will never search out what can be made to work, despite what any one single man's experience tells him. No one knows it all, so keep your eyes always open for things yourself may have failed at, when others have succeded. i know Ive learned a lot more about beaver trapping in the last 6-7 years, than i have in the preceding 15, and a certain points along the 15, I thought I knew it all.
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Post by dogpaw on Jan 1, 2007 5:37:10 GMT -6
RK Its pretty nice to hear some input from a fella that has been around a spell but it not really locked into a rut tunnel vision is an easy thing to develop thru the years and i see you don,t have it, thanks for the great post.
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d
Tenderfoot...
Posts: 35
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Post by d on Jan 2, 2007 19:35:59 GMT -6
Good post Rich, Maybe a few of the other repliers should read it better. If it was first, there probably wouldn't be a need for much more !
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Post by trappnman on Jan 3, 2007 8:16:57 GMT -6
d- many other trappers made the same points before rks excellent summation post- is their knowledge not worth listening to?
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Mark
Demoman...
Posts: 219
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Post by Mark on Jan 3, 2007 9:25:05 GMT -6
Set the snares!!!
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d
Tenderfoot...
Posts: 35
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Post by d on Jan 4, 2007 16:25:57 GMT -6
trappnman, Not at all. Not my point. Just think he put it all in good perspective. Some seem to think their way is only way, and a few seem to think they know all , and everyone else is 1- novice or 2- stupid. But it's sometimes amusing reading from some of the genius, professional, knows all about everything, maybe soon to be legend trappers we have. Not pointed at anyone in particular, and there are some fine top quality trappers and people on here. Please don't take offense!
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Post by Steve Gappa on Jan 4, 2007 17:08:05 GMT -6
none taken!
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