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Post by NittanyLion on May 20, 2004 17:58:02 GMT -6
I sure do appreciate the replies this thread has gotten thus far. I thought I was using big bait on the rare occasions I used bait. I would quarter a muskrat, this year, thanks to some of the replies, I plan to expand my bait using, and i will use a half of rat when using bait. Now this brings on another question. When using rat or mink for bait, do you keep the guts in the critter, or do you gut them before using for bait.
BaitDuke...Did you ever try using liver for canines? Back in the days when I trapped canines, I was not a big bait user, I used lure and urine at every dirthold, but seldom bait. When I did use bait, I used a round steak cut up in walnut size chunks. I had many people tell me that was an expensive bait. In the first place, the steak I used was slightly freezer burned. The steak filled a quart jar, and even today you can buy round steak for about $2.50 per pound on occasion. The prepared baits from dealers actually cost in the neighborhood of 10-15 dollars a pound. I figured my bait was much less expensive (Don't tell Stef). Offer your dog a chunk of steak and see how quickly he eats it. I never tried liver, but I may give it a shot sometime.
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Post by trappnman on May 20, 2004 18:42:20 GMT -6
Heavens NL- you can't even keep from mentioning coyotes in your own mink thread.....bad boy... ;D
JLD- Thanks for the good words. I always say, its the member who make a forum- and I believe we have a real good mix here.
Regarding catching family groups- I don't think taking a family group hurts the populations- unless you are leapfrogging the same stream for many miles. By leaving your traps in 1 place on a stream- you might take that group- but the other groups don't travel far.
The % of males in late season is amazing- in Jan and Feb, I'm taking 80-90% big males. Keep in mind I'm running traps that have been in place for 2-3 months.
JDL- do you find any difference in pocket sets effectiveness early season vs later season? Did you find that after say week 1- there was a dry spell for 2-3 weeks until snow, cold?
Pipes are nice for 1 main reason- maintenace. On most of my streams- pockets are made on banks facing south. The soil composition here is very susceptable to freeze/thaw- and this causes mini landslides and rocks, etc snapping traps. I got tired of a collapsed pocket and a snapped trap.
The pipes take care of this. A slide wire out- a pipe- minimum maintance, usually the pipe doesn't move or is laying nearby- the pipes have eye appeal hold lure well and can be made exclusively in wate less likely to freeze- with a sheer vertical bank- you don't have that pocket freezing effect.
Biggest fault- not a mink set- although I catch mink in them. Thus, my blind sets around the pipe sets.
Around Red Wing in the claybank area (Red Wing Pottery?) I much prefer a pocket punched into the clay- as stable as you can get.
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Post by BK on May 20, 2004 19:33:09 GMT -6
Move over,.........I gotta jump in a minute here. This year because the canines in the area I was to trap had mange bad, I set mink and beaver traps earlier than normal. I used a lot of pocket sets and a few BE sets.The pocket sets out produced the BE sets right up till the time the mink got nice and the males hit the deck...........but thats a different story. Because this was a spur of the moment decision, I used smelt and duck parts, both worked well. But the duck and goose wings, guts, heads were the best hands down. I fooled around with the oil sacks of the ducks and found this a very good lure in itself.
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Post by Maineman on May 20, 2004 19:48:31 GMT -6
Just wanted to tell you how much I'm enjoying this post...Thanks...
Dave Z ;D
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Post by k9 on May 20, 2004 19:57:43 GMT -6
So the value of mink musk smells at the set? I know that once a set connects, it is better then before..
Do mink musk smells attract more males? females? or both?
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Post by CoonDuke on May 20, 2004 20:07:46 GMT -6
Ninny, I don't want to hijack this great thread but the majority of my fox are caught with the aid of a hamburger based bait. ;D
My dad is a beef farmer and my wife works part time in a butcher shop. I think EVERY trapper should use beef for bait. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by CoonDuke on May 20, 2004 20:41:02 GMT -6
Good point k9.
Is the theory that females and young mink are afraid of mink musk a hogwash theory like fox not liking the smell of possum??
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Post by Computerhater on May 20, 2004 21:45:54 GMT -6
K9 and Coonduke,
My feelings are that mink musk may repel an occasional mink, but for the most part I feel it is a very natural attractant. I've caught big males and then caught females or young males after them numerous times. I mentioned Eric Space's mink line last night but forgot to mention a couple things. Most of his mink trapping is done in Feb. and early March which is right in the breeding season. Most of his snare locations are up out of the water so the mink is not jumping in and drowning right away. At several of his locations he is catching anywhere from 5 to a dozen mink in the same set. Most of his mink are males so obviously mink musk isn't a deterrent during the breeding season. Several times a season he will have a mink come in and kill a captured mink that is up on land. Sometimes he will catch this mink in another snare near by. I jinxed him the day I went with him. He caught 3 females and 1 male. I think the year before he said he only caught 9 or 10 females the whole year. These females were all caught at sets that had previously caught mink. One of the females had been killed by another mink but that mink did not get caught in another snare that day.
I'll leave with this thought on mink musk. Eric and his family used to raise ranch mink and they pelted several thousand a year for many years. I think Eric has probably seen and experienced a lot of things over the years while helping with this operation. He told me something, that at the time I didn't think too much about. I need to ask him again to make sure I understood him correctly but this is what I think he said. LOL If you try and lure a mink during the breeding season with a lure that contains mink musk from a fall caught mink you will repel the mink. If i get time I will call him and see if my feeble mind heard and understood him correctly.
Randy
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Post by JLDakota on May 20, 2004 23:49:31 GMT -6
Steve, I agree with your late season percentages on males. To answer your question on if there was a slow down in catches in baited pockets after the first week, I have to wimp out and say it boiled down to how heavily me and other trappers set each particular water way up, how many coon and rats there were etc. For the most part I can say I always felt I got what I thought was good action in my pockets even though I was miserly with my bait. When I went to "big bait", there was a significant measureable improvement.
I did play with some Mink gland lure back then (Caven's Mink Master), but can't honestly state that it resulted in increased catches. I have always loved the smell of mink and have been known to cut a gland in my fur shed on purpose each year with the first mink I catch so maybe I used the Mink Master for me at the sets. lol
There was a time many years ago, (when mink prices were still good) when I worried that me and my competition (many of whom were very good and probably better then myself) were screwing up many of my areas by staying too long. It seemed as some times if you took out the litter and the female and you had competition also taking their share you would seem to see low or even no mink numbers on that waterway the following year and sometimes two and the area would be dead. It was about that time that I changed my MO as it related to road trapping waterways (yes, it coinsides with my meeting Bud Hall) and started pulling after about 10 days regardless of my catch and moving to new areas I had mapped out. It was my hope each season that I could get 10 days in the new area before being tired of fighting ice made me pull. Any thing over 3 weeks open water in my area always seems to be a gift. After the snow and ice of late season has made most hang their traps up, I set up remaining open water consisting of springs, tiles, dams and control structures within about a 30 mile radius of my home with traps and coni's as sign tells me. I have found, as have most who are after mink at that time of year that it is often mostly big old nasty males that are finding their way into my sets. They have been I expect, hunting high ground and living in the marshes til everything is froze up and they are forced to the water for food and to deal with their upcoming rut.
Granted, I use fewer baited pockets during the late season and won't fight to keep them open. Blind sets and coni's rule during this time for me. I feel my baited pocket success is still high late season as they are in areas that the bucks and any coon are forced to come for food. It was during many years of late season experimenting that I learned how to use conibears with confidence. I look forward to our upcoming snare season, not only for the canines but for the big buck mink of Jan and Feb. I feel I can swap the coni for the snare and take as many or more with the new tool and it excites me. Jim
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Post by trappnman on May 21, 2004 5:52:02 GMT -6
Well, like I said- this will be the year I revist baited pockets early. I know ProCoon doesn't repel mink, cause I take a few each year in pipes and pockets lured with just ProCoon, so since my early line is going to be for coon. But, at least on streams I know are "minky"- I use a bait.
regarding mink musk- I think it is an attractant or at least a neutral most of the time. Yet most concede that big males kill young mink- I would think that the surviors would be a little leary of the smell of a dominant male.
Yet too, the best mink lures are minky- and "minky" is musk.
I'm like you Jim- I haven't trapped mink early for a while, and I have to say I know much more about pockets now then back then. As they say, the acceptance of something often depends on the point on your learning curve you used it.
NL- I lure a lot like you do- I use empty pockets early, then in late Dec-Jan I'll add a little bait and or lure- and I do see a bump. But I also find that if I continue to lure/bait these sets with the regularity of say a coon set- the bump levels off after a check or two anyways- so I'm not a believer of CONSTANT use of lure/bait.
Regarding live mink- I take 6-8 live mink every year- and have to say most locations continue to produce. I had my best set this season-have a big male alive (and the whole area reaked) early and caught 4 more at that set- all big males.
I have also the last 2 years, trapped mink to the end of the season. The quality was good enough (coon were excellent until the end) and the catch was mostly males in Feb. I was a bit apprehensive last year, wondering if my late trapping the year before had (cause of course I got a few females) hurt the population. No difference- it was an average year.
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Post by BK on May 21, 2004 14:48:10 GMT -6
JLDakota,......... most other trappers I wouldn't even bother to ask,........ but why in the world would you wish to snare mink when you could use conibears??
I know nothing about snaring mink,.........but it would seem pelt damage, live mink, twisted up snares to name a few would all enter in? The only thing I can figgure would be trigger avoidance? While I can't say it never happens to me, it is very very seldom.
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Post by Steve Gappa on May 21, 2004 15:09:41 GMT -6
BK- I have some nice ones made by Bill Franz- if I ever used them, I might say they work good in snow tunnels and those round holes in the bank. I mighht say that they would work very well in those 2 situations.
If the snare was staked in water, on the 4-5 mink I might have caught this way if I had used them - I'm guessing no snare damge would be visable.
___________________________________________ Also would like to try that snare set with snare in drainage pipe section-
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Post by JLDakota on May 21, 2004 18:35:30 GMT -6
BK, Many years ago I spent some time with Calvin Cobb who had been forced to become a snareman when his home state of Florida outlawed traps. From that time on, learning to become knowledgeable about the subtleties involving a snare became a priority. Later, I went to the Trappers College with one of my goals being to spend time with and pick the brains of snaremen like Dan DeZarn, Jerry Joe Barnett, the late Mr. Red Edgemon, Newt Sterling and anyone else who was passionate about their craft. The more I learned the more I wanted to know. I believe I have every book and video that's been made available and have gleaned most of what they offer. Snaring in the last 15 years or so has evolved into a specialized efficient method for taking fur that should be in every trappers "bag". I have some land in northern MN that has allowed me to experiment and apply things I've learned over time but my real wish has always been to get snaring back in the agricultural area of MN so I could use the tool in my normal trapping enviornment.
Having provided insight above that snaring is/has not been a passing whim for me, I will attempt to answer your question of why I want to snare mink. During the past year it became my good fortune to make the aquaintance of Eric Space from NJ, who Randy and I have both made reference to. Because his state doesn't allow trapping, he also had to learn to snare many years ago. He has snared over 12,000 animals of which over 1400 have been mink. He has developed proven methods and a mink snare that allows for the catching of the mink right behind the ears which normally minimizes damage. He snares late season big males which I also do so the application to my line as soon as the law provides for it will be perfect. Snaring mink is about quickness of the snare and swiveling. I will not quit using my coni's but there are so many places where a mink snare is a better tool for the situation at hand. If you recall, I have for a long time been of the opinion that round triggers on my coni's gave the mink a "hole" to go through vs "possibly" wires to avoid. If I have "ever" had, (and I have), a mink avoid my coni for any reason, that will probably not happen again with a snare. Lastly, as Randy referenced, the Space family has raised ranch mink for ever and he knows mink. I could be wrong but I want to say they processed 20,000 a year. If his methods were going to result in him being down graded on his catches, I doubt he would have taken and sold the numbers of wild mink he has. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but as I said previously, I'm excited about it and can't wait. God help me if southern snaring falls through for us again this year. lol Jim
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Post by BK on May 21, 2004 20:28:45 GMT -6
Well, I understand better now your school of thought. I hope it works out well for you,......not much worry about getting your fingers snapped.
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Post by NittanyLion on May 21, 2004 20:30:19 GMT -6
JLDakota......Thanks for your input, Steve, BK, CoonDuke, and I have discussed mink trapping. My wife got me Bud Hall's book for Christmas, I enjoyed reading it and this coming season I do plan to use more bait, and now I know I will use bigger bait.
I thought I was the only one that ever cut into a musk sac on purpose. While on the bait subject, has anyone ever noticed if the catch ratio was better when using a female mink vs. using a male mink?
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Post by Computerhater on May 21, 2004 20:48:49 GMT -6
Electric Lion,
When I cut the rats into two pieces the heart, lungs, and sometimes the liver seem to stay with the upper half of the rat. I don't remove them. The lower half of the rat has the stomach and intestines which I will remove. I don't know that it matters it is just what I do.
BK,
I know you didn't ask me but I think mink snares have their place. I've been toying around with them for a few years and I am intrigued by their simplicity. I've only snared a few mink and yes I probably could have caught those mink in other sets. With that said, I can see places where they may possibly be the better alternative. I use the snares that Eric Space makes. As J.L. said they are designed to catch the mink right behind the ears if set properly. They do just that. Most times hardly even a snare mark. I did snare a small female by the chest and it did leave a small mark but I was not downgraded for it. A lot of the mink are still alive and they do tangle the snare up but if properly swiveled it does not present much of a problem. Eric gets top dollar for his mink and most of his mink are caught in Feb. and early March.
I talked with Eric a little while ago and I remembered his statement correctly about the mink musk. We talked a little further on it and he offered a few more opinions on musk. He said that the fall musk is a "I want to fight" musk while the spring musk is a "I want to cuddle" musk. He does think that mink musk will repel a young buck mink on occasion. He said he has seen tracks in the snow where a young mink would not enter a hole that he caught a big horse mink in. He said the tracks went right up to a few inches from the hole but he wouldn't enter. He said after a few days passed and the scent had dissipated a little the set started to produce mink again. Interesting stuff.
Randy
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Post by mac on May 22, 2004 4:26:21 GMT -6
Thanks to all for sharing their experience on this thread. Lots of stuff to think about. Wish we could use snares in Maine. See a lot of locations for their use each year. It is always interesting to hear the arguements about bait or no bait. Most big numbers mink men that I am aqqauinted with or have read about use bait, along with every other method available. Not all, as some are strict blind setters.
Mac
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Post by Timber on Aug 29, 2004 6:12:34 GMT -6
Does anyone else have trouble with otter in mink sets that are baited with a mink carcass or mink musk?
It seems I have a hard time keeping them out of my sets or destroying my sets.
Tim
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Post by Ridgerunner on Aug 29, 2004 8:07:47 GMT -6
WOW! ... Great thread! NL: Yes, I use bait at around 75% of my pockets. Infact, years ago, I thot that every pocket was to be baited ... lol. It was only after finding a location in a long stretch of white water (rocky banks) that I came upon a vertical bank (clay) and I threw in a baited pocket. That set produced very well for a couple of years before it dawned on me; ( ) geeze, the main attraction here is availability! Hence, I started looking for more spots where the pocket could be used as a "blind". For baited pockets, I use in order of preference, mink carcass, weasel carcass, muskrat cut in two pieces the same way that Computerhater does. ie: I remove the entrails from the lower half and use that as one bait. The upper half; I leave the heart, lungs, liver, & head. I have a preference for the upper half, but both produce, and school is still out as to whether the location/mink population was the key. I also use a whole fish, minnows, or crawdads at times. I have never used chicken liver, but I don't see why not, as I use it successfully at my weasel sets. Steve: I think JL has it straight on the snares. ie: Speed and swiveling. On the snares I sent you a couple years ago; that is why I put the little fishing swivel between the snare cable and the extension cable. Quick "hook-up" with minimal damage. Also, snaring has brought me to the belief that the mink will more readily pass thru the round type triggers on coni type traps. Especially on dry land sets, upon which I use some light camo anyway. In addition tto that thot, this past year, I picked up a dozen of the round body grippers,equipped them with the round triggers, and made up some little offset brackets for them in order to get them to set up straight. I am eager to try them. Much appreciation for all the great ideas and "minky" insight to everyone. "Ridge" Ps to NL: Almost forgot, another bait I like on dry sets is mice, or simulated mouse nest with a lot of eye appeal. I make very few of these, but throw one in when the opportunity presents itself.
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