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Post by trappnman on Feb 25, 2004 8:15:54 GMT -6
Saw this brought up elsewhere.
Question: Do you believe that a trap covered with water will spook an animal?
My thoughts-
Mink- no, I have never seen any evidance that a mink will avoid or walk around a foothold that is under water. I believe covering with mud, leaves, etc is a waste of time and may even be counterproductive.
I have seen on dryland where mink will, if given the chance, go around a conibear.
Coon- no avoidance- but will play with a tap sitting on a hard surface. Bedding into a depression and using rocks, sticks as guides sure help.
Beaver- Unsure. I would say no, any avoidance problems I have seem based on disturbance and scent, not the trap.
Both beaver and coon will also go around conibears at times
Muskrats- definitely no.
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Post by Wright Brothers on Feb 25, 2004 10:16:59 GMT -6
I've seen it both ways with coon. Grandpap knew of 10 or more dens within walking distance of home and he would cut a drag and set a long spring on the den trail uncovered and rack em up. They had every chance to walk around or over the trap. The same coons could at times be tuff to take at BAITED water sets. At another local by an old homestead spring I had a big one get snapped at a baited water set and from that time on I would get flipped traps, even with the trap completely underwater and blended, and I never did get him, he got hit on the road a couple of summers later. I think some can link being snapped to bait scent. Pap would always blind set first, then later add mild bait like corn, then louder bait like fish or groundhog. The blind sets took the biggest and hardly ever took nontargets. I always blended mine and sometimes caught fox. The only way he took fox was with the gun. I don't think a water covered trap will spook them, but I do think that unnatural scent raises suspicion.
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Post by mustelameister on Feb 25, 2004 10:42:33 GMT -6
Your last statement is an excellent point, Polecat. If I've got the time to make a baited and or/lured pocket set, I've certainly got a couple extra minutes to blind set that pocket on either side on a submerged shelf, if possible. Those big 'coon don't get that big without being a little bit cautious in the first place.
With respect to the original topic, I concur with original post regarding water covered traps not spooking most critters. If/when I don't set my traps deep enough in times of receding water levels, my "high and dry" traps will have tracks of all critters walking around them. A source of real frustration in tailwaters on fluctuating streams/rivers.
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Post by CoonDuke on Feb 25, 2004 11:33:30 GMT -6
I usually cover my traps simply because I want them working if the water goes down. It also helps hide them from "Johnny".
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Post by mike692 on Feb 25, 2004 12:14:08 GMT -6
My water traps for coon are covered with one wet leaf. No more, no less. ;D
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Post by Wackyquacker on Feb 25, 2004 14:51:57 GMT -6
I find this to be irrelevant...when my traps are covered with water the coyotes and cats around here move to high ground. On second thought I guess that is avoidance
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Post by trappnman on Feb 25, 2004 15:32:33 GMT -6
WQ- do you have any water trapping there? I was amazed at the beaver in the plains of SD for example- ponds many miles away from anything have beaver in them
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Post by Clefus on Feb 25, 2004 19:42:01 GMT -6
I would say beaver that I've had avoidance with more so based on the area being trapped before including by myself....some areas get a lot of pressure also....
Any other critter doesn't seem to pose a problem in that regard..
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Post by BK on Feb 25, 2004 21:16:50 GMT -6
I won't go into the Conibear part of this as it's too lengthy and difficult to convey, but in regard to foot traps, I refuse to believe any animal can look at one and know what it is under water, let alone it's function. Many foothold traps are set above the level of the bottom in the body of water in question. Covered or not in this case one is expecting the animal to step up on the trap, and hit the pan. It dosen't always work out this way.........
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Post by Wackyquacker on Feb 25, 2004 21:48:11 GMT -6
Well there is water traping in NM where there is water LOL. Along the major rivers and mountian streams there are Beaver, Rats, nutria and coon. But I don't know if there is any quality. I've even see A mink. Actually there are quite a few beaver in places. But where there is water there are usually people. very few trap water critters here .
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Post by vttrapper on Feb 26, 2004 3:32:16 GMT -6
I have had beaver avoid traps set at castor mounds by going around the trap. Also have seen where otter would not go through a trap just around it. Both times traps were underwater. Tails in the snow told the tail.
frank
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Post by jsevering on Feb 26, 2004 6:41:04 GMT -6
Had a beaver avoid about a fifty yard stretch of water between dams, couldnt figure why i wasnt catching the darn thing as there was sign about every other night at the bottom stretch, but no legal place to whap him, except the stretch, between the dams, I thought.
got snow and could see the sucker went to dry land on me the whole fifty yards are so, got him on dry land.
have had otter avoid traps, but usally caught one there prior, really dont know for sure if they along with some beavers are actualy avoiding the trap or just that particular spot, conibears can be a different story, I belive....jim
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Post by trappnman on Feb 26, 2004 7:48:15 GMT -6
Jim and Frank- Are the beaver going around because of the 1) disturbance and/or 2) scent.
I too have had shy beaver- but I don't believe that it was because of the trap underwater. I suppose one way to tell would be if they went around an underwater foothold, the trap could be pulled, and the next time the beaver should pass over.
I also agree that beaver can be very shy if spooked. I know that they are very aware of their envirnment. Usually they don't care- you can construct a lot and catch beaver left and right. But when spooked- yikes! And they can be as human scent shy as any ole pegged legged coyote.
Otter- for sure, otter caught will avoid the area and the trap location. In the 3 years of otter trapping here- never caught a radioed otter on the same crossover. And usually (some exceptions of course) once an otter was caught at that spot the location went dead.
as said- conibears are a different story.
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Post by dj88ryr on Feb 26, 2004 8:55:22 GMT -6
Now that you are talking Otter and Beaver, I found out the hard way, that Otter and Beaver to a bigger extent than most think, will avoid a " location " if they see another caught there. I believe they don't have to be present when the other is caught, just see it at any time before you pick up the animal. After having great first nights on beaver swamps up north, and then having sets go dead except for kits, I started moving the trap after a catch. Results were imeadiate and sometimes even better as you could now figure the animals had so many less lift outs to use. I always move the trap after a catch on otter or beaver.
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Post by vttrapper on Feb 26, 2004 15:31:32 GMT -6
on otter, I have seen the tracks where they have gone out of the water, over land and back in clearly not wanting to go near the trap,330. I believe the otter did not want to go through the trap, though i am speculating. I have caught multipal beaver in the same trap set in the same location.
Beaver, the same.
frank
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Post by BK on Feb 26, 2004 15:48:27 GMT -6
vttrapper, I have seen the very same thing with otter many times. I have returned to the same set area two years later and they were still pulling out and running down the bank in the area I had caught one in the past. Yet I have gone on to set up a area 40 yards up or down stream and caught the same otter, with the same basic set.
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Post by yota on Feb 26, 2004 16:24:47 GMT -6
Beaver can see very well under water , at least to the point of knowing what a 330 looks like........no scent at all but by pure site...........I made one square shy yesterday for sure........tryed to push it and lost.....beaver can and will also become snare shy even tho the snare is completly submerged.....once you screw up on a beaver , it becomes fun !!!
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Post by Edge on Feb 26, 2004 16:36:15 GMT -6
You have a twisted sense of "fun" Buzz,like me. I hear all the time how a beaver will never become snare shy,bullshit,plain and simple. I dont go out of my way to camo footholds for beaver,but it has its place,I burlapped a CDR to catch a big sowlene,til I did that she was just a sniffer;and the food supply was non existant.I wouldnt brlap a #4 DLS,but the CDR overcomes a bit of padding.
Edge
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Post by rk660 on Feb 26, 2004 21:41:38 GMT -6
Steve, i do see a fair amount of coon dodge a trap in the water at times. usually its when trap is setting under an inch of water or less and water is clear. Now Im sure they dont recognize it as a threat or trap, but more of an obstruction. a dyed black trap sticks out fairly well against a lighter bottom. I see this alot when a stretch of creek or river drops on me, as i run a 5-6" deep trap most of time, If it drops and pans are almost out of water, I know right off the bat I will be missing some coon that day. I'll see them work the hole, ream out pocket, and not step on trap, sometimes many more times in a day than I care for. Tracks all over bottom in front of the trap and you can definatly see they aint stepping on the trap. I do dig a bed for trap with tile spade and wedge trap in it bed tight. I like seeing the trap about 1" lower than the rest of the creek bottom. When I get "shallowed out" i see a lot more coon jerking traps out of bed, flipping traps and all that goofy stuff in addition to plain not stepping on trap. Worse on full moon nights. Food for thought Steve: Seems this is worse on these dead water creeks I have, visabley under water is better, coon dont fight any current in water. On the few places where I got a fair amount of current, I dont seem to have as much problem when trap is shallow. current glare probibly breaks up the sight of trap to a certain extent. from pics of your trapline Ive seen, it looks like you got a lot of current in your creeks, maybe that helps you out more to where through a combination of wading current and not seeing the trap so well, it doesnt cause you as big of problim as me? I know that if my water shallows up enough I'm going to have a 1-3 hour longer day, cause Ill be digging every bed down deeper or moving my sets to a deeper location .
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Post by trappnman on Feb 27, 2004 7:06:16 GMT -6
Its all running water, and very clear.
Let me ask you this rich- if on smooth bottoms, do you put "guides" around the trap? I many times in shallower water place 1-2 baseball sized rocks next to the trap.
That way, the trap doesn't stick out so much. Make a big difference in success and wise guy turned over traps.
Also- do you use guide stick next to the dog on the trap? The picture by the beaver dam in last T & PC shows trap and stick. This too has a tremendous influence on misses.
My personal belief is that more coons are caught by playing with and picking up the trap than many people realize- if the step on something that moves or shouldn't be there- they will touch it, feel it, etc.
Both the rocks around the trap and the stick reduce this considerably.
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