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Post by mattduncan on Apr 23, 2007 20:49:38 GMT -6
i too have caught my fair share of coon in blake and lamb 1's and they will hold coon but i do see a number of snapped traps and i'm sure i could bring this number down but i'd just as soon use 1.5 coils but than again i'm not sure why i;m posting as i'm not allowed to target coon specificaly with footholds so i guess my rat and mink sets produce a lot of incedentals lol
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Post by mustelameister on Apr 24, 2007 10:20:14 GMT -6
So is the Shagster going to share the secrets of the Blake & Lamb #1 that would cause our heads to spin if'n we saw the catches?? I'm a-waitin'!
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Post by shagnasty on Apr 24, 2007 11:00:18 GMT -6
not my catches, so no pics from me, i dont target coon very hard and none at all the past few years. the pictures and info are from some friends of mine that have trapped all their lives with these traps. i dont feel right announcing on a public forum their hard earned method that they showed me. i have caught enough in these traps to know what they will do.
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Post by mustelameister on Apr 24, 2007 12:35:01 GMT -6
dang . . . .
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Post by thebeav2 on Apr 24, 2007 16:17:04 GMT -6
Darn and I was allready to go out and buy some #1 Ls LOL
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Post by shagnasty on Apr 24, 2007 18:42:50 GMT -6
you guys can joke all you want, but i seen it with my own eyes, i know what they do. there is another reason for the use of the #1 but this has nothing to do with mechanics.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 24, 2007 19:24:53 GMT -6
no one is debating that you can't catch coon, and a lot of them in #1. but those will large coon to trap, know that the #1 is not close to being an ideal coon trap.
I'd say its close to using a 1.75 on coyotes- its not the ideal trap, and you are going to get more misses- but with patiance and technique, they work well.
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Post by thebeav2 on Apr 24, 2007 21:11:50 GMT -6
It's like using a 22 to hunt deer,sure 100s of deer have been and are being killed. But using a 30 cal will get the job done with a lot more efficiency, It's the same with traps. There is a huge difference between southern coon and northern coon and you need to use the right sized steel.
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Post by mountainman on Apr 25, 2007 0:08:30 GMT -6
The trend to go to smaller traps still has momentum while the populations of larger more valuable water animals are at an all time high in many areas now. Im personally not going to limit myself with a trap that I consider marginal at best on the smaller animals when I can have more flexibility with a better all around water trap and be able to easily adjust to changing market conditions. Adding booster springs helps prevent pullouts by coon with weaker #1s. I often added them to #1 old style B&Ls anyway as it made them even faster on mink. I had a good number of #1 and #1 1/2 longspring traps dismantled by coons. Turning the chain around and bending the jaw ends up will help some on stopping them from pulling the jaws out, but doesnt completely eliminate that problem for me, especially with #1s. Often times I checked a mink set in a concrete culvert or rocky place under a bridge and saw my modified #1 longspring laying there beat to pieces by a large coon. The #11s fare better and if strong and lock down will hold some otter, but are still too light for efficient drowning even on mink and rats. With small traps mink and rats often wind up laying in shallow water without a positive drowner setup on every set. A heavier trap can often just be tied off or staked in deep water and will easily and quickly pull small catches down out of sight of thieves and predators while also holding large coons.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 25, 2007 5:46:01 GMT -6
the strength of a #1 is not in question.
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Post by mountainman on Apr 25, 2007 11:30:59 GMT -6
Ok trappnman. Strength is not an issue. We know that #1s will hold numbers of coons. I belaboured a conceeded point along with expanding on it. Percentages of misses varies with technique and patience.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 25, 2007 11:36:01 GMT -6
mountainman- I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying that I never found the strength of the spring to be a problem. That is, a #1 in good shape, be it Victor or B& L or other, a trap that "feels" strong, will hold 99% of the coon that the trap gets a proper hold on.
I think more missed coon are the result of techinque, as yo umentioned, then weak springs.
I'm guess I'm assuming no one would set a weak springed trap.
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Post by mountainman on Apr 25, 2007 11:54:00 GMT -6
Agreed. Im not trying to argue either and sorry I got off track. Its been my experience that with a strong #1 I hold nearly all coons with the possible exception of where they can climb into trees, tangle the trap and thus be able to use an exceptional ammount of force on the trap. I agee that technique and how that relates to percentages of misses is the most important aspect on this. I have achieved a good percentage of solid holds on coon in sets that force them to step on the pan. Even there I still get a percentage of misses although it is a notably smaller percentage of misses in those sets.
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Post by bblwi on Apr 25, 2007 13:52:28 GMT -6
My statements may not have a high correlation to the focus of this thread but here are my experiences with 1 long springs and raccoons.
All of my 1 long springs are stop loss traps and until last season they were all Victor round pan stop loss with the guard resting on the long spring when set. I do not use the delay release pin.
I have caught raccoons yearly while rat and mink trapping in these traps for over 22 years. I do not target raccoons with these traps. I am not afraid of setting them for rats or mink where coon are common as they will hold them easily if I catch them. I use a 2 foot wooden stake attached to 4 feet of 1/2 inch plastic tubing as my marsh staking setup with about 4 foot of cable and chain in total attached to the stake. This method holds almost all coons with 1 large claw or two smaller claws as the give is there and they wrap in the cattails. For the streams I use the same trap and then have about 5 foot of chain attached to a 4 pronged drowner in the more rocky and less vegetated areas. I hold about 80% of the coon that are in the trap long enough to create a catch circle type area, based on the mess I find. I would guess that about 30% of the time, maybe more I have snapped traps with no mess area or no coon or rat and mink.
Here are some other thoughts and observations. Two years ago i bought 4 dozen used 1.5 B& L stop loss traps and these traps not only were larger but more importantly the pan tension was stiffer. I set these mostly on houses and feed beds where the rat catch would be much higher I felt. These traps had very, very few misses. I caught two coons but did not like the damage that was caused. I feel I need to increase my pan tension on the 1 Victors to reduce snapped traps and probably rats as well as coons. I also discontinued using lure for rats 3 years ago and have noticed that I have more snapped traps as a result of not using lure. I am suspecting that many of those may be coons as they are not directed to an over the trap in this blind setup as they were with the lure as an attraction.
My best guess over the last 22 years is that I have probably held 25-30 coons per season as an average in the 1 long spring stop loss traps.
Bryce
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Post by rk660 on Apr 25, 2007 21:35:41 GMT -6
Shag, I'd really like to see how big them coons are that are being trapped bigtime in no 1 longs. Our yearlings run 10-14 lbs and 2 year old run 14-18 and lots of over 20's. If you get in an area that has been left alone, you get runs of over 50% big 15-17 plus pound coons at times. An it aint so much holding power as it is small trap/big feet on big coons. No matter what scheme a guy comes up with for using a smaller trap, he has to make some corrections to make it work, numorous guides, tension, whatever. All that takes time. Time away from getting down the road to more traps. With a good sized trap you plop it down, squush it in the mud and GO! No dicking around with guides, special bedding schemes, special hole setups or whatever. Ive used b and ls, victors, welded in helpers, all that crap, when could have been better served with a better trap. One thing I have found with no 1 of any version, is you do lose more coons on slide wires with them, or any weaker trap for that matter. Even good strong 11's will lose more at end of drowner, the hind foot deal. What works fine keeping them held till shot on bank, dont always work as well at end of drowner on a 25 lber thats fighting for his life in neck deep water. Dont matter WHAT trap your running, if you wanna run 2 lines on 2 day check, youve about HAVE to drown your coons. Th small traps, double jaws all cannot overcome a 2 day check held alive w/o undo chewing/losses. And that is where the small stuff fails, hind foot large coon on drowners with too small a trap WILL flat out cost you money. Its about same deal as trying to coyote trap with a 1 1/2 coil or beaver trap with a 220...yea ya can....but why would ya? I will concede that other parts of country with them little swamp coon could get by with less losses than around here on them, but they just aint gonna cut it in the midwest on these cornfed jumbo coons. If a youngster only had no 1 to use, i'd be a bud to him and loanshark him duke 1 1/2 at the very least, at 100% interest, and he'd still come out ahead. Then if I was a real nice guy I'd buy his coons at 1/2 price, and sell him watered down whiskey and overpriced women, so he could learn the history of the fur trade first hand.
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Post by mountainman on Apr 26, 2007 1:47:27 GMT -6
Alright. No more pussyfootin around. I have had to turn so many incidental coons loose out of mink sets that it still boggles my mind thinking about it. Now the regs are changed to where I can at least keep them on half of my lines. There are little lady school teachers, old folks and little kids being attacked by rabid animals about every day now in NC. I have been waiting to see which way I want to go on new water traps with the way things are now. Im going to use #3 Dukes on drowner rods with locks that drop like greased lightning and send em down for the count....A short count. On the way down they can say hello to all the beavers, otters, minks and rats that are already layin on the bottom. Maybe every tenth set or so will be a CDR 7.5
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Post by rk660 on Apr 26, 2007 11:37:33 GMT -6
Now your thinken!
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Post by thebeav2 on Apr 26, 2007 13:25:48 GMT -6
Come On Shag you have to admit that your coon run a whole lot smaller then our coon and the size of the trap would make a big difference In "efficiency" ( not holding power)
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Post by lumberjack on May 2, 2007 9:21:14 GMT -6
I always figured I would go with an oversized trap rather than an undersized trap if I was to run drowners. I tried messing around with small traps for coon one year, it took inside of a week to scrap that idea. I havent found a use yet for a #1 trap yet for in my area (that a 1 1/2 coil couldnt do, and do better). Another trap I do terrible with for coon is a 1 1/2 longspring, staked or dragged, I love em for mink and rats but they spell trouble for me with coon.
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Post by RonMarsh on May 2, 2007 10:41:47 GMT -6
The #1 is a good coon trap. Use very little cover. No leaves between the Jaws. Set for a front foot catch. and have fun.
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