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Post by bobwendt on Feb 16, 2007 8:38:01 GMT -6
I forgot hounds, they just lay there and wag tail and raise hind leg and pee and then wimper in fear.
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Post by Wiley on Feb 16, 2007 8:56:34 GMT -6
BW: "my thoughts are the sows and kittens tree easy and stay put to get shot."
sows?
Is that a Bob Wendt term?
I'm visualizing some Yorkshire x Hampshire cross sow with a litter of kittens hanging on the tits.
sow coon, yes! sow bear, yes! sow bobcat?
Doesn't seem to fit!
Interesting observation on the hound hunters.
~SH~
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Post by Steve Gappa on Feb 16, 2007 8:59:47 GMT -6
know some hounds I love to take hunting with you Bob- I've even got a nice coonskin cap for you to wear....
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Post by Corey on Feb 16, 2007 8:59:48 GMT -6
I don't know guys....I think if you ask any houndsman what the hardest animal is to consitantly catch, 95% of them would say a bobcat, I don't really see how a houndsman could make too big of an impact on the overall population....I'll pose the question on a hounding forum, i'll post a link with the results. chat.waycoolkennels.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1316Here's the link, it will take a little while to get enough responses to form an opinion. These guys are all diehard hunters, some of the best in the west, just like most of us on here are diehard trappers so it should give us a pretty good idea of what the truth is. Corey
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Post by Traveler on Feb 16, 2007 9:01:53 GMT -6
Since we're talkin' 'cats.....here's a question.How far will the average 'cat shuffle come early winter?Twice I've seen a dispersal in 'cats that I could truly call a dispersal.This is something I've wondered about for years is why all of a sudden a big sift in movement pattern ??
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 16, 2007 10:32:01 GMT -6
feed, drought, coyote influx? one thing happened to me this year. I started out catching 1/2 old 3-4-5-6 or older toms 10 years ago in my area. as I worked them it got down to only 2-3 mega toms/year. I figured I just trapped hard enough they never lived to get old anymore. now this year it was back to 1/2 very huge aged toms again. my explanation is severe drought where creeks that had never gone dry in the last 100 years went plumb powder up. the cats had to move to follow the feed I guess. sows?, like the guy that got in the deer and pig biz as he wanted a sowsandbucks?
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Feb 16, 2007 10:37:03 GMT -6
I think lions have a big impact on our cats populations.
As far as trappers taking them out there is way to much inaccessible country to wipe them out.
I was talking to a new biologist that was clearly astounded at the piles of cat hides at the fur sale.
He expressed concern for the safety of the population until I told him that 90% of those animals were taken with a quarter mile of a road.
Joel
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Post by Traveler on Feb 16, 2007 10:55:14 GMT -6
Another think or thought is on travel contours.Truly despersing 'cats I'm sure follow certain contours acording to the lay of the land.I have one area that's a water shed system that a lot of the traveling 'cats seem to work down.I've seen no 'cat sign then catch 4-6 'cats there in a weeks time.Sows with kittens,young toms,old toms.This mix up has led me to believe that this individual water shed is a true dispersal route.
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Post by Wiley on Feb 16, 2007 15:17:03 GMT -6
Joel: "I was talking to a new biologist that was clearly astounded at the piles of cat hides at the fur sale.
He expressed concern for the safety of the population until I told him that 90% of those animals were taken with a quarter mile of a road."They don't have a clue Joel. I have listened to those guys cry every year that we are going to hurt the population. The next year, the harvest goes up. Same ones crying again. The next year the harvest goes up again. Same ones crying again. WHAT PART OF AN INCREASED HARVEST BEING CONTRARY TO THEIR POSITION DO THEY NOT UNDERSTAND? Sorry but it really torks me. Every age class is represented. The juevenile to adult ratio is healthy. There is no valid red flags to roll back the season. Built in safety mechanisms of weather, inaccessability, release of titty females, "me and the boys are gonna trap this year", the difficulty to catch all of them due to their unpredictability. The list of safety mechanisms goes on and on. I think Montana is overly cautious. I would bet they couldn't defend their quotas with hard biological data if their lives depended on it. I would love to testify against these biologists and have them justify their quotas against the hard data of track surveys, percentage of land mass harvested, juevenile to adult ratios, age distribution, population estimates, etc. etc. Those green biologists don't have a clue. It's our job to educate them Joel. Nobody will do it for us. ~SH~
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Feb 16, 2007 16:55:31 GMT -6
Those green biologists don't have a clue.
Evidently.
Why on earth anyone would be worried in a state as vast as nevada and also happens to share a border with arizona, and california needs to get a clue.
How much impact would truly brutal winters have on cat survival.
Would young cats be succeptible to an extent.
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Feb 16, 2007 18:12:01 GMT -6
Six of the cats I skinned this year had bird shot in them. Someone other than me is seeing cats around here. I used to let small ones or females go. After this season skinning all the shot ones why release them when some hunter who doesn't even have a furharvesters license wants to poach them and go to the bar and brag about the cat he got. I was lucky this year that those 6 guys sucked. Exactly why a limit is perposterous. The only people limits will help is the ones that couldn't trap them to begin with or poaching hunters. The cities tag has actually been a good thing with the cats. Hard scientific data showing they are only increasing and keeping at least some of the poaching of them down. As far as the lures RK's weasel gland lure seems to get them to take a look. And Brian Roberts has a new lure that did get several to go off track. Had a couple cats walk past fancy flagged sets and get caught in a coyote set 30 yards away. I read somewhere when a guy catches 20 cats that guy knows alot about cats. I think the more you catch the more you realize you don't have them figured out at all.
Jeff
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 16, 2007 18:30:54 GMT -6
jeff, your last sentance, that`s me. I catch a lot and don`t know chit it seems, less as time goes by and the more I catch. I just work hard and try everything and hope and pray and sometimes it works and sometimes she just runs away! the only cat I would turn loose would be a very very tiny kitten, and then only if I was sure mama was still around, or a real bad silver dollar red tittied female. not because I`m a good guy but because she is only worth 30 bucks and I`ll gamble she will litter big next year and no hunters or other trappers dump her.
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Post by Freak( Jim V.) on Feb 16, 2007 18:49:41 GMT -6
Jeff , you summed it up with that last sentence for sure. But they still are tooooooo fun to not trap. LOl
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Feb 16, 2007 19:47:33 GMT -6
Wiley our biologists are on it here in NV. The guy I was referring to was green when that happened. He's since learned a lot about cats.
NV has the most liberal seasons and bag limits around and no worries.
I think that we have the best data and mangement maybe in the country.
I wish some of the other Western states would take notice and let their trappers have more opportunity.
Joel
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Post by Wiley on Feb 18, 2007 10:53:32 GMT -6
That's great news Joel!
I would love to have access to Nevada's data series as additional ammunition in my arsenal.
I have been participating with a GPS radio collar study in the Badlands National Park here in SD. I also helped necropsy around 230 cat carcasses for body condition (kidney fat), femur marrow, diet, age classification, placental scars broke down by age class, weights, heights, lengths, etc.
It's going to be fun to see the final masters thesis. What I really want to see is how weather systems, temperature, barometric pressure, and moon phase affects cat movements since these GPS collars are taking a reading every 1.5 hours.
By assisting with this study, i am not only helping to gather data for management but I can also learn more about their movements in this area.
This year we will be going to the Black Hills and possibly NW SD to collar more cats.
I enjoy your posts Joel.
~SH~
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