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Post by 3n on Nov 23, 2006 11:09:44 GMT -6
The trails leading to the dens nearly touched...The whole article is worth reading.
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Post by 3n on Nov 23, 2006 11:25:16 GMT -6
Nope Odon Corr didn't even mentioned Parvo...
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Post by bobwendt on Nov 23, 2006 11:41:25 GMT -6
there is more than you are telling. let me relate a true happening. about 4 springs ago, in wyoming, I spotted an adult red beech on a den and 5 pups laying out. plain as day. I had set several dens that day already and was over extended as is, so filed it away to set later. comes a big rain and one thing or another and I don`t get back to set it for 10 days or so. was surprised to see it all still scummed up and fresh looking, but saw no fox when I set it. something didn`t feel right about it but I set it anyway. the red pups were big, turned red already and this was their first den, so I knew they were on the verge of moving. next morning, 2 adult swift fox and 5 pups in the repeating box trap shoved down the den. what the flock? what happened was the reds moved, as they do every 3-4 weeks, found them 3/4 mile away at a fresh den. then the kits moved up the ladder and moved their pups into the empy red fox den. now if I was a pea brain, I`d be on here swearing red fox and kit fox den in the same den at the same time. or write some b.s. story appearing to know my chit but fooling only the ones that knew even less than me. now, tell me the truth on odons den touching trails or I`m saying he is full of it or who ever told him that is full of it and he should know better than to believe that b.s. the lamb and the lion do not co-habitate. period.
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Post by bobwendt on Nov 23, 2006 11:43:31 GMT -6
mike spring, no not "close", this time dang near touching! I expect the next post to be an eye witness to seeing them boinking each other. enough of this sillyness that insults my intelligence and should yours ands every reader also.
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Post by 3n on Nov 23, 2006 12:08:23 GMT -6
The dens were in close proximity Bob they were not touching...Get a copy of the article and read it for yourself.. Hell I'll send you mine.
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Post by bobwendt on Nov 23, 2006 12:49:03 GMT -6
"close enough the den trails almost touched". there is an explanation, like the arial gunners killed the 2 old reds, pure co-incidence the coyotes moved their pups in a day later, and they were using the red pups as chew toys. something like that. did you say odon saw this himself? or someone "told" him about it? if the article truly professes him to think this actually happened, saw it himself or believed what another told him, nah nevermind sending me the article, no need for me to read it.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Nov 23, 2006 13:02:39 GMT -6
I have no doubt fox take ducklings and eggs. I do however feel that here- coon, skunks, snapping turtles take far more.
Its more that coyote has so many food options-
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Post by bobwendt on Nov 23, 2006 13:47:27 GMT -6
the ducks unlimited programs that have increased nesting success dramatically ,attempt to remove all skunk, coon, and red fox. don`t know about turtles.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Nov 23, 2006 15:08:26 GMT -6
snapping turtles take a lot of small ducklings
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Post by bobwendt on Nov 23, 2006 16:20:48 GMT -6
I knew that, I meant I didn`t know if the ducks unlimited programs addressed turtles or just land predators.
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Post by musher on Nov 23, 2006 17:19:37 GMT -6
Bob: I believe that it was Delta waterfowl and not D.U.. However, you are correct in saying that it resulted in a marked increase in nesting success. Frenchman would know more with lots of details.
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Post by bobwendt on Nov 23, 2006 17:35:30 GMT -6
you are correct. it was delta. in fact seems there was a major ruckus as d.u. said the opposite as delta. my mistake, sorry. delta actually hired trappers for SPRING extermination programs and recorded sometimes 10 fold hatching and fledging results as the un -trapped marshes. d.u. claimed habitat and not predators. lol, sound like a bunch of traperrs to me. of course I side with delta!
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Post by nybillyox on Nov 25, 2006 2:30:21 GMT -6
Bob, how many fox I have caught isnt relevant. I dont need to catch a certain number of fox to know whats going on in this area. I dont need to even be trapping to know. I dont need an impressive number caught to know how many dens are in this area, and theres more then what I described to you, that was just one example. I dont need to be trapping to see how many deer hunters now bring in coyotes to area taxidermy studios. To use the measure of how big my catch is before you take my words as legit is why I call your silly argument a d*ck contest. Admit it, western NY state offers a very different situation then you are used to, a situation that these guys were very willing to describe and share as an exception to the rule. Thats what they were trying to say. If you only knew just how many coyotes are taken around here, along side just how many reds, you couldnt just attempt to regard our observations as amateurish. Sometimes our observation will be even better, as we do not have the natural bias that others have, having seen their fox eradicated. They are both here in strong numbers, they have even been seen denning in a much closer proximity, mange has hounded them both, yet the food remains abundent for these two most adaptable species...plain and simple. If you werent so hard headed about this, Im sure a couple of these exceptional canine men would walk you thru a few days of this. It truly is different then what many of you western or midwestern guys are seeing. I will always enjoy your experiences shared in these forums and as you know, Im the first to defend your name with those knuckleheads that give you grief in the other forum we both use. Someday you might see what we are seeing here, though.
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Post by bobwendt on Nov 25, 2006 2:58:25 GMT -6
I did catch my 8th red yesterday after trapping everyday for 40 days now ,and rolling over to new ground every few days. but that is a bitter pill to swallow knowing the same area was good for 500 a month and 15-30 a day 25 years ago. who`d of ever thought when driving up to see a red in a trap a guy would quietly exclaim, well, I`ll be danged, a red fox. where`d he come from?
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Post by bobwendt on Nov 25, 2006 2:59:33 GMT -6
must be the spill over from the crowded reds in new york. it`s a cinch they aren`t coming from illinios.
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Post by Rick on Nov 25, 2006 8:23:38 GMT -6
Yeah...must be Bob.
Never said "crowded"...far from it. A couple pages back I'm sure I referred to it as "marginal ground". But, again, we do have a decent fox population...some years a pretty good one. I call my trapline marginal partly because of the untrappable ground. Lot of knuckleheaded people problems, access problems, and the worst weather this side of Indiana. But the fox are there.
You spoke of guys not understanding Red Fox populations as compared to an area's carrying capacity MINUS Coyotes. What I tried to say, and maybe didn't relay very well, is that I think I do understand. I think this ground is well below it's fox carrying capacity minus Coyotes...BUT...we HAVE Coyotes.
Like I said, the fox population is a cyclical thing. Could be, in a good year, this ground is near it's fox carrying capacity WITH Coyotes.
Hard to get a point across on this thing. This discussion would be alot easier with a pile of firewood and a keg of beer.
Rick.
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Post by bobwendt on Nov 25, 2006 9:04:14 GMT -6
my ground is at red fox carryiong capacity with coyotes, lol, 8 so far!
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Post by Rick on Nov 25, 2006 11:50:41 GMT -6
I KNEW you were gonna say that.
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Post by bobwendt on Nov 25, 2006 12:17:58 GMT -6
;D
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Post by Freak( Jim V.) on Nov 25, 2006 22:37:03 GMT -6
I second the keg and campfire idea. We should really make note of certain subjects and throw them out after a few hours around the campfire. But irrergardless , there is a tremendous amount of information in this thread if you can decipher it  |
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