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Post by Steve Gappa on Apr 3, 2006 10:08:13 GMT -6
Had a PM that addressed an interesting question. Does a coyote work better, harder- when first entering an area or after he has been there a while and then leaving? Here is the PM: I have a question I would like to get your opinion on. When predators are traveling and come into a hunting area like a field or weedy brush patch along their travelway would they be more apt to be catchable then or just before they leave a hunting area? I would think just as they enter but if there is no food source to be had maybe they would respond better as they left? What has your experience been with them? At either spot they would be funneled down and very near sets but would one be a general better location to use? Do you find at the junction of the drainage or at the end - there I would think the end as you could basically set-up 1 location and be on weather they were traveling up or down assuming they would need to cross a wet area to get to one of the sets on the way up it. If you setup on the junction end you (I) would want the side away from the bigger body of water as they would more likely be on the down-drainage side in better numbers - RIGHT? I mean where would they come from on the upper side if you set close to it? What do you think- Am I starting to get this?I don't think it matters- you could build an argument both ways. If a coyote came into an area, found food.. would he investigate lured odors as well? Maybe not. Dogs certainly have less "hunting ambition" with a full belly and more importantly, seem to have less of "a nose". That is, a dog with a full belly many times has a harder time trailing something than with a lean belly. I've seen it happen many, many times over the years with beagles and labs. As far as location, I use as a staple small strips of waterways that extended into bean fields and corn fields. A coyote in my mind works points more routinely than a mink does, and always make my sets at the very end where it dwindles to a point. Then I place a set 3-5 feet back on each side. The one thing I always think of and often say- coyotes are like water in that they follow the points of least resistance when traveling. Look around- think Zen..where does everything "flow together" so to speak? Thats where to make your sets. I often have people ask me- so you just set out i in the middle of that field- nothing there. Perhaps. But a wide angle view, shows that that X, is part of the natural flow. Look at the grass lines, the color line between hay, field edges (the obvious flow line but only one type). Road extensions are also part of the flow- look for the connections even if they don't appear to be there. In my area and perhaps many, old roads often dead end, turn into field roads, disappear for a ways, then field road, then old road, etc. The continuation pattern is still there. Another thing to keep in mind- is that a coyote is AT LEAST 50% a sight hunter. Logan studies go one step further, and in tests have shown that hunting coyotes locate more prey by SIGHT than SMELL. I believe, they hunt in areas and in directions that offer them good visual hunting and more importantly- access then to that prey. Comments?
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Post by k9 on Apr 3, 2006 15:58:08 GMT -6
To add to already good info here, I think a coyote's travels consist of barriers and travelways, and the coyote's mindset is almost impossible to control.
Learning to recognize coyote barriers, large rivers, busy interstates, woven wire fences is important, as even though some coyotes will find ways through those barriers, they can effect the travels of many.
The travelways are just as important, and I like your water theory, it just makes sense.
So is a traveling coyote always a hunting coyote? Is he more susceptable when he first enters an area or when he has been there a while? All good questions with many variables to factor in.
Bob got me thinking a few years ago when he was talking about coyotes when they first get out and about in the evening, having a couple priorities, one being thier empty belly and the other being needing a drink. This was a discussion we were having about his early night checks. The thoery being that they may be more susceptable to a baited set, when they first start traveling around.
Far be it for me to contradict Bob, and I am not. He has caught countless more coyotes than I have, and I think in some circumstances his logic is true.
One thing you never say about a coyote is that he NEVER does something or ALWAYS does something. As soon as you think that one will prove you wrong.
I am going to buck that theory and go out on a limb and say that a coyote is ALWAYS an opportunist, no matter what time of day or night, new area or old stomping grounds, if he sees an opportunity he will take it, unless the opportunity is not worth the risk. Even if he does not take an opportunity, because of a poorly blended set, or some other reason, I think he is ALWAYS seeking opportunities without fail. When he encounters one, then he assesses the scene and either works the set or not.
I have bounced all over and have left myself wide open to criticism, which is fine with me.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Apr 3, 2006 16:47:48 GMT -6
I'll add coyotes use their noses to really figure things out and they always trust their nose as with calling the large majority of coyotes will come in down wind. They may hear some thing but if they can't visually see it, they use their noses to tell them if things are "true" or not.
I also think the more dense of a coyote population you have the more receptive they are to any type of food odors as it is the "greed" factor that plays more into it then and it will be much more receptive with a larger coyote population. I was talking with a guy and he had a yearling cow that died on a chunk of ground.They flew thinking quite a few coyotes where hammering it, found 2 coyotes and they got into some cedars.
He sat on the carcass at night and found 2 coyotes came into it and would feed then go off aways and then come back minutes later they kept this routine up, they were going off into the buck brush and puking up the food and then back at it again. Just greed is all it was as they didn't want any newcomers to join the carcass pile party. This area had at that time a good coyote population and with fall dispersal I think they had found food heaven.
They also like to hunt into the wind as again that helps them identify food much quicker than eyesight alone and especially if the cover is a little taller.
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Post by briankroberts on Apr 3, 2006 19:32:05 GMT -6
Talk about deep!!
Wow!!
How could we ever possibly answer those questions with anything but speculation??
I know I couldn't, but its good to see interesting questions, nowhere but CRU.....B.....
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Post by k9 on Apr 3, 2006 19:59:41 GMT -6
TC37 is right also about pressured coyotes being greedy. I have a yellow lab that will do her best to hog down as much food as possible when she sees I am letting the Airdales into the pen with her. I can give all three dogs something and one will disregard a bigger piece given to it, just to take a smaller piece from the other. I think competition makes canines drop thier guards and do stupid things.
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Post by Mike N. on Apr 3, 2006 20:38:51 GMT -6
Here's a pic I took a few hours ago while looking for deer antlers. This is how I found it. I believe the coyote was heading north along the 2-track to possibly exit the pasture and cross a county road into a crop field (or maybe to hunt a shelterbelt or both). The road is maybe 40 yards north from this. The front track is set back about 15" from the hole, perhaps if there had been a odor or even a furry little critter, it would have inspected closer. Last season, I caught 1 coyote and pinched another to the south of this spot about 20 yards. I thought this was an interesting pic.
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Post by bobwendt on Apr 4, 2006 4:18:28 GMT -6
I got that same pm and answered the same as you- doesn`t matter. my rational was I have seen in the snow or mud where a canine comes in ( fox or coyote) toting dinner- whole prairie chicken, pig leg, whatever- sets it dwn 8 feet from the trap and gets caught to live mkting everything I made it a habit to cut open the guts of every coyote I caught, also cked for heartworms and all kinds of stuff. anyway, some coyotes had empty stomacks, others as big as volleyballs nearly filled with so much they near busted. proving to me entering to hunt or leaving after the hunt, for whatever reasons ( i.e. the "greed" mentioned) they were as likely to get caught either time. k9. my trheory on the early pertains only to the5 mile jaunt overlansd to that cvarcase dump or rabbit patch, vs lollling around sniffing each other after the grub has been securered. I notice essentiall no greater catchg running at 10 am as say midnight, leading me to believe if he is coming by your trap at all that day, it is a done deal by midnight or he isn`t even in that country, but 5 miles away and he isn`t coming over tonight. Of course alwayts ecceptions, I`m juast saying what I feel happens MOST of the time, in fact enough to warrent midnight runs. and no I`m not chasing themn off. if anyone says that I`m going to dump a buclet ofg pig crap on their head.
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Post by k9 on Apr 4, 2006 5:47:29 GMT -6
Not accusing you of chasing. It got me to thinking about identifying areas that are less pressured, that coyotes might spedn the day in, and target some of my equipment there. I have a fondness for timber pasture here, during pheasant hunting pressure the first couple weeks of season. After our conversation sometime back, I started thinking of coyotes who use those "quiet areas" to hole up at, where no hunters or dogs are pushing through daily. If that is the resting area, then when they get up and around they are probably more food oriented. That's the first thing on my agenda when I get up in the morning.
That and checking this freaking addictive website.
Actually Bob the general context of our conversation was that you felt most of your coyotes were caught in earlier evening, before your midnight runs. I do not want to turn a good thread into an argument that has already been hashed and rehashed. The fact that a coyote has eating on his mind as more of a priority when he first starts getting up and about makes sense. I think a coyote usually almost always has food on his mind, if not to eat it know to at least know where it is for later.
I speculate, as Brian points out, however I also reflect on my needs and first thing when I get up I want food and a drink. I know my needs are not 100% like a coyotes. I do not need to roll in smelly things with my shoulder and I do not want to sniff any of your butts. However I think some things that we experience can be related to what a coyote experiences.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 4, 2006 7:08:23 GMT -6
is a traveling coyote a hunting coyote
I don't think so. Not to say that he wouldn't be opportunistic, cause with rare exceptions I think he will go after serendipity prey- but on a general basis, a traveling coyote is going somewhere.
I base this on some personal observation with coyotes, but more with observation of coyote tracks. When going from place to place, it seems like the tracks are as the crow flies- mostly, following natural routes.
Open fields, field roads, real roads, etc- straightest line.
One interesting thing borne out by many, many studies- is that an "average" coyote travels 9-10 miles in an "average" night.
But this is just as often in one locale rather than linear.
Many times, a collared coyote was observed doing 1 or two things- either running a rough triangle pattern of 3 locations or staying put on 1 farm, many times 1 field.
The triangle pattern "usually" has 3 points that he visits in a random pattern over the night- say A, A, B, B, B, C, C, A, B, etc ...
These points are roughly 1-2 miles apart.
But in either case- you will have multiple visits to locations over a night.
And this means that a coyote has many opportunities to see and smell a set. Does he work it first time through? Perhaps. Or does he see 2,3,4 times before working it? I believe many times, its the latter.
As far as chasing off coyotes by checking at 1,2 AM- don't know about chasing them off, but I know that you will have coyotes many times caught long after that point.
That coyotes continue to hunt and to travel during the entire night, not just the first few hours of the night.
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Post by bobwendt on Apr 4, 2006 7:19:43 GMT -6
depends on where you are in the U.S. In the big remote pastures of ks or the remote areas of wyoming, they are apt to move/hunt as much at hi noon as night, although the tendency is less wind, less heat and more movement of prey at night, so the bulk are indeed caught during darkness. come east where tractors/hunters/etc are out all daylight hrs and rarely do they move/hunt during the daylight. I still maintain 90% or more of all canine catches are before midnight. granted always some caught afterwards, but ask anyone trapping in the east, night runs produce less theft than day runs, showing dang few get caught after that midnight, 3 a.m or whatever run.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 4, 2006 7:39:06 GMT -6
I think so much of that is related to weather.
Regarding tractors, field work- that pattern seems to be changing some. That is, I am seeing more and more coyotes during the day, and farmers report to me that many, many times when doing field work or hauling manure, the coyotes are right out there with them.
Dinner bells.....
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Post by bobwendt on Apr 4, 2006 8:07:45 GMT -6
lol, mn. isn`t the "east". in the "east" they don`t hear dinner bells, they hear KABOOM!
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Post by z on Apr 4, 2006 8:38:40 GMT -6
They hear "click" first......LOL! Good comeback Bob, But then again...... Is Indiana really EAST? Bwwaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.............
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Post by bobwendt on Apr 4, 2006 9:20:01 GMT -6
parts of indiana are as east as washington d.c., other parts as west as wyoming. just more mud and home of the $3 coyote. I have a t shirt I had stenciled to say "INDIANA, home of mud and the $3 coyote". used to wear it at trappers meetings before they lost interest to me. lol, the meetings, the mud and the $3 buckers.
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Post by 17HMR on Apr 4, 2006 9:26:51 GMT -6
After 1000's of hours holding a spot light all night when i was younger I found that it was hard to find a yote between 2am and 5am. I always wondered where most of them went in these hours.
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Post by bobwendt on Apr 4, 2006 10:16:39 GMT -6
I don`t know about nebraska but here the bars close at 2 a.m. maybe they all lay low till the drunks get home. now me, I`ve never been in a bar till 2 a.m. I just hear tell this stuff from some distant aquaintances.
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Post by DaveM on Apr 4, 2006 11:29:16 GMT -6
After 1000's of hours holding a spot light all night when i was younger I found that it was hard to find a yote between 2am and 5am. I always wondered where most of them went in these hours. They are all in Bob's truck heading home. ;D
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Post by bobwendt on Apr 4, 2006 12:32:56 GMT -6
or I got them all skeert down for the night. why they avoid crossing interstates at night and walking the berms picking up dead stuff, lol, like on I90 thru south dakota where I see them all night long. all around kodaka is where I think the most are , and they are all puppies too! sorry, the devil made me do it.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Apr 4, 2006 13:06:56 GMT -6
in fact enough to warrent midnight runs. and no I`m not chasing themn off. if anyone says that I`m going to dump a buclet ofg pig crap on their head
Your chasing them off Doc. And no your not going to dump a bucket of pig shiite on my head either...I'm taller than you.
BWAAHAHA.
Just ridin' you bob. "The devil made me do it".
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Post by bobwendt on Apr 4, 2006 14:53:22 GMT -6
I got a ladder.....
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