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Post by bobwendt on Dec 2, 2005 16:04:07 GMT -6
time in the trap is critical. swelling self heals, but steroids quickens the healing process, better foot faster.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 2, 2005 16:53:22 GMT -6
Bob- I have no doubt the softcatches do all you say they do. I'm not debating that.
What I did state- was they have no value for ME on my fur line.
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 2, 2005 18:55:14 GMT -6
agreed, if they have no value for you, you are the only one that matters-now. if bmps are implemented some years down the road as mandatory, you might change your tune. lets hope they aren`t , as that is everyones fear, being forced to use certain traps. but if it comes to pass , all those with a leg up on softies will be ahead of the game and many dollars ahead in gear that is not now obsolete.
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Post by gunny on Dec 3, 2005 0:08:02 GMT -6
"Crap- it one thing to use softcatches- it purely another to say they ae superior to other traps.
Montanas can be used right out of the box- no baseplating or other modifications are needed.
Thats my friend is a fact. "
True 100% However, lets take that montana or bridger or victor or any other non-padded jaw trap right out of the box and catch a 5#ringtail (worth an easy $50-$150 on the taxi market, not including the skull!), and see how much we can sell him for? That my friend is a fact as well.
"Others can do what they like- without bashing non softcatch traps."
I'm not bashing non-padded traps, I own montanas, bridgers, montgomerys, victors, etc. For me on my line, I need a trap that will hold coyotes, bobcats, and high value taxi items like ringtails.
For me on my line, I can confidently proclaim that the padded jaw traps are truly superior to any other trap currrenty on the market. Both in the intial cost and the financial results on the actual trapline.
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 3, 2005 5:13:58 GMT -6
gunny, you need to get with the spotted skunksand hognose, worth more than your annual cat take likely and fast easy sellers.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Dec 3, 2005 7:06:35 GMT -6
what disturbs me, is that a thread on PULLOUTS- suddenly turns into a "softcatches are better" thread.
Frankly, using a softcatch on ringtails doesn't have much to do with coyote pullouts.
And softcatches- unless of a specialized market- are NOT superior for putting fur on the boards.
Equal? Who knows and who cares. They are tools- you like a 22 oz framing hammer, I use a 26 oz- neither is BETTER
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 3, 2005 7:57:58 GMT -6
but you say the same in reverse, i.e. steel is better than softcatch, at least for you on your line. Is it not possible softcatch are far superior for others on their lines?. SPECIFICALLY because of LESS pull outs, the topic being discussed. one poster actually stated such.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Dec 3, 2005 8:36:15 GMT -6
of course they can be superior on an individual basis- but there is no proof in any shape or manner that they reduce pullouts.
and the proof isn't in using THEM- the proof is in using other competent coyote traps.
Pullouts aren't a problem for me or for dozens of other coyote trappers. If you would like to start a thread contending that softcatches do indeed reduce pullouts- I'm sure it would be an interesting thread.
In my case- it it ain't broke, I don't fix it...
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Post by Steve Gappa on Dec 3, 2005 8:37:44 GMT -6
and ps- I never said better- although lack of dicking with rubber pads would be a bonus- I said that I didn't see where softcatches could be superior FOR ME - as my steel traps satisfy me 100%
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 5, 2005 15:41:16 GMT -6
Wow what a post LOL!!! First off why would one get the idea that by making the jaws wider would increase your pullouts??? Also chain length with the proper tensions and jaws you can run 3 ft of chain on 72 hrs without pullouts!!!! I would look at your welding of laminations is all the extra, setting well with the factory jaws? Are they even top to bottom? and side to side? Offset factory or did you weld lugs? I would up your pan tension to 3 lbs and make sure you have a crisp clean trigger with limited fall of the pan.
I use alot of #3 bridgers offset and modified and loose very few coyotes, and I run alot of sterling mj600's with wide cast heavy jaws and good offsets and loose even fewer coyotes in them less than 1% annually. I'm not in the taxi market and I want to hold coyotes as well as I can on extended checks and I will say for that purpose softcatches are not the way to go!!!
Can someone explain why the softcatch is a far supierior coyote trap than say a montana or sterling or bridger modified? I can tell you to hold coyotes it takes a trap that can lock up, hold the foot well with minimal movement and have decent pan tension to keep losses very low. The softcatch is a offset trap with what 1/8th of rubber between the offset and the steel jaw, the rubber gives and the foot will slide, you use to much power and you have feet that aren't livemarket quality, have mud and slop and I'll bet your losses go up in them as well. The pads are an added exspense. The specialty markets are the bulk of these traps and to say if the BMP"s get regulated then you'll be a step up, how do you figure that? The coyote BMP's had many other choices and some that did better than the soft catches for holding and injury scores, look at the double laminated #3 Bridger the best score out of any for overall performance and the sterling MJ600 did excellent on the western study as well.
In snowy conditions short chains are not a good idea and in areas where you have alot of wind and need to cover your traps with 3/4" or more the softcatches aren't a good idea, when coupled with heavy gumbo,rain and freeze thaw. I tell you their are many other choices for coyotes and cats than the soft catches and others will say they are the best for them, different conditions for different people and end results, but no one will convince me in a side by side test that a #3 softcatch will have a lower pullout rate than some other traps one can buy for the pure intent of holding coyotes. The BMP's showed that as well as the #3 softcatch was 4 coiled in the testing! Yet still did not have the rating of the #3 bridger double laminated trap when it came to capture efficantcy.
Your gaining some on the cutting with the rubber between the jaws, but otherwise by using nice smooth -wide jaws your getting a better hold over more surface area. Again I don't know of any one that traps coyotes on an ADC or fur basis on 3 day checks that use the soft catches on a large basis, because they would add no benefit by day 3 and you would have to change out the trap at every catch and still have a higher loss ratio and performance issues.
Use what you want to and feel the "best" with, but to state that the softcatch is the answer for all coyote trappers in the future or that we will be using only those traps is false, as we have proven through the testing that other options will work just as well and better given a wide range of circumstances.
Bob 4 coiling has proven itself for years with coyotes, the key is having the proper offset to match the added power and having nice smooth wide jaws, as a package deal it works very well, thats just a fact!!! I have plenty of pictures to show this. Steel causes worse swelling because their is less giving of steel than rubber!!! The thin rubber padded moves and is pliable, a steel jaw is far less pliable, but again it goes back to the offset, take the pad off of your softcatch and measure the offset and then measure a factory offset same trap type, you get more of an offset with the softcatch, to give the foot more room between the jaws even with the rubber!
No secret, take away the rubber and you may get more cuts but I bet you don't see much differance in the swelling depending on foot location in the trap. Now add lamination and you will have less cutting with a smooth jaw, no different than alot of other traps out there. I like the montanas my draw back with them is using lugs to make the offset, instead of spending the $$ to make a nice offset jaw without the lugs allowing the levers to lock up!!
Each to his own, but I don't like it when people say that the rubber between the jaws is the key to the softcatch it isn't the biggest factor,take away the larger offset and slap the pads on and your foot damage will be worse guranteed. Taking away sharp edges and using a good offset is the key to holding coyotes well in my experiance, which has been on 24,48 and 72 hr checks.
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Post by trappermike on Dec 5, 2005 16:14:15 GMT -6
Kind of like my softcatches with short chains, and shock springs. I don't have a problem with pullouts even in mud or wet conditions. Ive used regular and softcatch and run both on a 24hr check, still like the softcatch better. Now ive never ran on a 72hr check so can't comment on what works there. As for the foot slipping in the rubber pads it just don't happen.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 5, 2005 19:55:50 GMT -6
Mike with all respect run 12"+ of chain on those traps and see if your foot movement doesn't increase! In snow you can;t do the 6" chain bad things will happen once all is frozen solid!!! You have either got to run drags or longer chain.
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Post by Randy Davis on Dec 5, 2005 21:24:08 GMT -6
TC35, I started this post because I wasn't sure what was causing losses. I have Bridger #2's because #3's aren't legal on land in Arkansas from the factory. Inside laminations might take care of that (must be no more than 5 5/8" inside spread). Before I added the laminations pullouts weren't a problem. They already had short chains so I added the shock springs and still had some losses. All the while I'm trying to figure this out, my #3 Softcatches are holding coyotes - no misses and no pullouts. My new Softcatches should be here tomorrow and if I have time I may experiment with the Bridgers some. They are great cat traps without the laminations. Live market trapping and fur trapping are two different ballgames as far as feet are concerned.
I appreciate all the replies to this post.
Randy
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