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Post by Stef on Dec 27, 2004 15:50:11 GMT -6
Lost another coyote double today. Was testing some 1/16th 1X19 cable this year with choke springs, Cam locks, 3/32nd 8-10ft tail etc... I did kill a few but now its enough....
I had very little loss before with 5/64th 1X19 cable without choke springs etc....
The only tool that I've seen that was safe for our eastern coyotes with 1/16 cable and did catch a few in 3/64 cable.... Was the Power Ram...
Why... they just cannot chew the cable when they have the RAM spring arms on their necks.
Amen!!!
Stef
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myst
Demoman...
Posts: 113
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Post by myst on Dec 27, 2004 16:28:44 GMT -6
Are you trying stingers with that combo of snare testing?
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Post by Edge on Dec 27, 2004 16:40:03 GMT -6
**1/16th just too small for our big brush wolves**
Duh.
1/16 really shines for underice beaver snares tho,so dont throw it away................
I am glad you are giving up on the 1/16;this fascination with micro cable is beyond me;I understand the physics of it,yadda,yadda,yadda.........theoretically less fur damage(say for instance,the ones that are still running loose;*very little damage*)not much for enhancing the fur check tho.
Back in my suspicious mind somewhere I think some slick talkin cable salesmen has created a pseudo market (coyotes)to increase his bottom line cable sales;ie;anything to make a buck.
While I have made a few tests myself,it wont happen anymore,I am more than happy with my 3/32 and 1/8.
Sorry you lost a few Stef...........maybe they will be nice and come back?
Edge
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BillKnapp
Skinner...
Training tomorrow's champions
Posts: 51
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Post by BillKnapp on Dec 27, 2004 17:10:53 GMT -6
I'm with Stef on the 5/64 1x19... I've caught a pile of coyotes with it and I can count my losses with my right hand and still have room to spare.
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Post by Edge on Dec 27, 2004 17:36:57 GMT -6
I've never set a 5/64 cable that I am aware of;so I wouldnt know.
3/32 and 1/8 offer all the pluses with no minus's.The main reason I use 3/32 is that it is good for yotes,fox,beaver,cables on conis,double stake loops,cable stakes,etc.
The 1/8 snares I use in tight spots,and for extensions,drowner cables,fur hangers,double stake loops,cable stakes,etc...2 sizes of cable to cover anything I can legally snare.
There is much ado about the hiding (blending)capabilities of the micro cable;to that I say bullchit.Any application that requires hiding a 3/32 snare,requires hiding the 1/16 too.
The real hilarity comes when the micro cable guys tout the speedy quick kills due to the smaller cable diameter.........I can barely restrain myself from laughing out loud.The definitive work in cheesy science.Actually heard a guy say.....its like a knife blade;its like cutting wood with a knife(1/16 cable)or a rope(1/8th cable)...1/16 kills "quicker"......I highly suspect I was listening to a D-Minus student of the physical sciences.
Edge
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Post by fishdaddy on Dec 27, 2004 17:42:19 GMT -6
edge at the risk of sounding stupid what exactly is a double stake loop?
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myst
Demoman...
Posts: 113
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Post by myst on Dec 27, 2004 18:10:20 GMT -6
Gee Edge you never snared in North Dakota then, we do not the brush to blend in the heavier cable, and Baddog 's Stinger's do work very good with smaller cable.
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Post by Edge on Dec 27, 2004 18:38:08 GMT -6
Fish;a double stake loop is a piece of cable in a figure 8;to double stake yote traps;I make em out of snare scraps.
Myst says
"Gee Edge you never snared in North Dakota then, we do not the brush to blend in the heavier cable, and Baddog 's Stinger's do work very good with smaller cable. "
I am not sure what your point is?Read my post again and see if you have one.
Edge
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Post by Stef on Dec 27, 2004 18:50:58 GMT -6
One point that I want a say here now...
No the choke I used was not the Stinger. Was O'G 50 pounds springs... anyway...
Maybe Baddog springs are better its possible but the real point is that our big eastern coyotes are not SD, NE, AB and MT phisycal size coyotes
I saw plenty of pictures of western coyotes and most coyotes from there look like PUP eastern brush wolves.
I think the thruth is 1/16th all dressed snares work on Western coyotes and they are just too small for our big yotes here.
Edge... 5/64 1X19 works well I've held coyotes as big as 56 pounds with them and like Bill said above... I can count my loss with my both hands and I still have room for more.
Stef
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Post by BadDog on Dec 28, 2004 0:55:00 GMT -6
Hiya Stef, Long time no see... huh? If your brush wolves are snapping your 1/16, then yes, the cable is too light.
If your brush wolves are eating the cable, then it is your equipment that is at fault, or possibly the manner in which it was deployed.That simple! If you can kill your brush wolves with a ram + 1/16, then you can do it with the Stinger. Part of your battle will also be in the conditions in which you are snaring. If you are snaring in very whispy brush, some of your catches will semi-entangle and this scenario can lead to chokespring failure as the brush can shock absorb needed energies away from compression of the chokespring. If you use a low quality spring as your picture depicts, even the western coyote will turn it into a piece of mushed wire and eat out and leave unless you use every trick in the book. 5/64" helps reduce the chew outs but will not eliminate them... some coyotes are just plain chewin little bastards and will readily chew out of 3/32". If you tree tie solid, your results will be improved with any spring, if your ties are not solid, again you lose the necessary energies to the shock-absorption. If you tie too high your critter's front legs and front end will come off the ground, instead of energies direction/slammed into spring compression the animal launches itself. These here brush wolves of yours... are you talking wolves here or just big kiyutes? Western wolves would easily snap a 1/16" snare. With a Stinger Kill Spring, the bigger the animal, the faster and more positively he dies...Period! Your brush wolves, if they are coyotes will be very easily killed with the Stinger on 1/16"! Of that I am positive. I wish that my coyotes were bigger, they would all be dead immediately upon capture. Then again, they'ld be a whole lot more work packin' 'em all back to the truck... okay, you can keep them! Edge... One simply catches more with the 1/16 than otherwise, making the job easier to get done as there's a whole lot less work to do in order to get the job done. Set less snares and get the job done, making more time to set and run more locations... vastly increased trapper efficiency = larger daily catches with the same effort = larger season caches when all's said and done. Myst... Glad to hear that you like your Stingers! Today I only checked one location, was setting in a new line, killed 8 for 8 with the Stinger + 1/16, 1 coyote entangled, the other 7 killed with Ram speed. Was a breeze resetting the 7 snares, the entangled coyote's location took some work, was in and out of that one location in less than 1 hour with the 8 coyotes, and my location is still set at 100% efficiency. Stef, before you permanently ditch your 1/16, do try my little Stingers! 50# chokesprings are not remotely close to being their equal! A squashed/mushed chokespring will only kill a coyote as good as it can after being squashed and mushed by that coyote as that coyote is still alive after he has squashed and mushed your 50#er! The 50# rating of that spring is a true joke... Somebody just wishes that it is a 50# device... Only in his mind and in his dreams!
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Post by Edge on Dec 28, 2004 7:13:34 GMT -6
**Edge... One simply catches more with the 1/16 than otherwise,**
Quite to the contrary;while*you*may catch more with 1/16,what I read all too frequently on these boards is that more coyotes are *lost*on 1/16. I assume you have run an all 3/32 line to register comparative data.
**there's a whole lot less work to do in order to get the job done. **
Not sure I follow that,instead of running one-piece 3/32,you are working with multi component extensions as well;which must be made seperately woth seperate components. Or is it that you need fewer snares because there are theoretically fewer refusals?
**With a Stinger Kill Spring, the bigger the animal, the faster and more positively he dies...Period! Your brush wolves, if they are coyotes will be very easily killed with the Stinger on 1/16"! Of that I am positive. **
Yes,and with your numbers I could hardly argue;you catch roughly 5 times the number of youtes I do annually;and they are furrier too.
The downside is that 1/16 cable is being touted to every tom dick and snareman from Saskatchewan to Coral Gables as being the be-all end-all of yote cable,but the info is not inclusive of the facts that:
A)there must be measures in place to assure your snares are properly rigged;or the 1/16 becomes woefully inadequate;causing lost fur and in the worst case scenario,loss of snaring priveleges.A yote woth a cable collar running around in Saskatchewan is not going to have the same effect on the non hunting population as one running around in say,Green Bay,WI and its surrounding Burbs.
And B)That these components are spendy;a buck a snare,minimum.For myself thats 500$ to start the season ,re-usable,yes,but the initial cash outlay stays the same. Snaring is touted as a do-it-yourself kind of deal,and with heavier cable,it truly is;but when you get to the finesse cable,it is not.While a fairly heavy hitting snareman can get it done,the average "Joe Trapper"is not going to.I am speaking of snare manufacture here.
To conclude,the 1/16 obviously works for you;great.But IMHO,the beginner or average Joe is much better served with 3/32 cable snares and a good stiff lock like the Reichart or Camloc;easy to make,cheap to buy and use,and in all,pretty hard to screw up,ie,rarely seen as jewelry on a live coyote.
Edge
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Post by nib420247 on Dec 28, 2004 9:51:28 GMT -6
I've only used 6 or so snares, so what I say has little meaning to me and shouldent be taken to serious but with my begining of trapping I set some 3/32 snares behind my friends house whare he had lost his cat a few nights before.....I checked about 7 am and went farther in the woods to look for some coon dens and returned at around 10 am to head back to the house only to see my set tore up from a distance...so I head over there to find my cable bloody and chewed through....now there is certainly something that I probably done wrong but I feel robbed of a coyote, my stupidity, but my #2 duke os 4 coiled would have held a coyote for that short of time by one toe for sure, but the snare only wised him up abit, now I feel cheap for lookin at the cable and sayin "well this one is cheaper it will do fine" what the f#$%^ was I thinkin, I use 1/8 in for drowners on coon and now I'm tryin to hold a yote on dental floss, hell even at $2 that was a loss I could not aford again, so no snares and the only thing I use that cable for now is to dip my coilsprings in the dye and wax. the moral of the storey is dont save a penny to waste a dollar.....would you use a 223 to hunt bear when if you do this a certain way and do that you should be ok, or would you use the big bore rifle that could stop a heard of elephant with no luck and little skill envolved? ;D just my $.02 snare advice.....dont use $.02 snares and you should be ok.
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Post by BadDog on Dec 28, 2004 10:52:18 GMT -6
"...Quite to the contrary;while*you*may catch more with 1/16,what I read all too frequently on these boards is that more coyotes are *lost*on 1/16. I assume you have run an all 3/32 line to register comparative data..."
Yes, Have been there and done that, have snared for a long time and at one point in time, I was a beginner just like anybody else. I have used 3/32" extensiveley in the past as well as 5/64". You are correct in some aspects of 1/16 useage, do it wrong with 1/16" cable and your losses will be intolerable.
"...**there's a whole lot less work to do in order to get the job done. ** Not sure I follow that,instead of running one-piece 3/32,you are working with multi component extensions as well;which must be made seperately woth seperate components. Or is it that you need fewer snares because there are theoretically fewer refusals?..."
Yes, set less snares to catch the same amount of animals. My rigs are more elaborate set ups than the average snare (to build), but once in place in the field (which takes little more time to set initially) they are resettable at that same location after repeated catches. I have used the same snare locations in very fragile brush bottlenecks for many years. If I save the location every time, I can reset there for many years to come.
"...The downside is that 1/16 cable is being touted to every tom dick and snareman from Saskatchewan to Coral Gables as being the be-all end-all of yote cable,but the info is not inclusive of the facts that: A)there must be measures in place to assure your snares are properly rigged;or the 1/16 becomes woefully inadequate;causing lost fur and in the worst case scenario,loss of snaring priveleges.A yote woth a cable collar running around in Saskatchewan is not going to have the same effect on the non hunting population as one running around in say,Green Bay,WI and its surrounding Burbs. And B)That these components are spendy;a buck a snare,minimum.For myself thats 500$ to start the season ,re-usable,yes,but the initial cash outlay stays the same. Snaring is touted as a do-it-yourself kind of deal,and with heavier cable,it truly is;but when you get to the finesse cable,it is not.While a fairly heavy hitting snareman can get it done,the average "Joe Trapper"is not going to.I am speaking of snare manufacture here..."
A- Yes, you have to do it right with 1/16" or else, but it is not a difficult thing to learn Anybody can learn how very easily. It is simple. For those who can't figure things out, that's one reason to take instruction. Dead coyotes don't pack cable!
B- One needs to get away from the nickel and dime mentality for snaring. Yes in the east the "Sullivan Snaring Mentality" may be a good thing, fewer dead dogs, but there will be just as many coyotes (actually more) packing cable out that way than this way. I do lose some, but not a ridiculous amount.
$500 invested in high quality equipment will pay for itself quickly, especially if you are in the 100+ coyote bracket as you are already an accomplished snareman. Catch an extra 25 coyotes and it's paid for and you had more fun! (which is truly why we trap)
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Post by Stef on Dec 28, 2004 11:03:09 GMT -6
I will!
But so far, for the past 3 years, I did very little snaring and from what I've seen with the "choke springs"... I'm really not impressed at all with all the poundage I used and I used the 23lbs - 50lbs - and 75lbs.
This year, to tell you the thruth... I was too late to try Stinger or you were too late ;D Anyway... I don't put an " X " on 1/16th but for sure when I'll get some Stinger, I will put and try them with both 1/16th and 5/64 cable for security and I'll let you know my result.
Merry Christmas Marty to you and all your little family.
Stef
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Post by Edge on Dec 28, 2004 11:29:13 GMT -6
Excellent post,Marty.Professional.
Edge
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Post by JWarren on Dec 28, 2004 19:33:20 GMT -6
I use 5/64 7x7. I am trying the springs for the first time this year and they weren't killing yotes at first because the cam lock wasnt locking tight enough. I ordered some modified L-locks and the couple coyotes I have caught since have been dead with a compressed spring.
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Post by DaveLyons on Dec 28, 2004 19:46:19 GMT -6
JWarren,
Did you see BadDogs referance to filing on the cam locks? This makes a world of differance in the snare locking up to me. In fact I am sitting here filing on cam's know.
Dave
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Post by 17HMR on Dec 28, 2004 21:58:49 GMT -6
I went with all 1/16 1x19 this year with a 10 foot ext and have had 0 chew out in 43 yotes so far, most in non entanglement open areas, filed cams stingers on some and 50# compression on some. 5 live yotes total out of them all, and only one of them on a stinger. Some of the stingers have held up too two catches so far but are showing a little stress, (not back to 90 deg) but still good for at least another 2 and maybe more I think. Last year I had 3 chew out of 3/32 7x7 8 foot filed cams with out ext, I think good locks, good springs, and long snares are the way to go for quick dispatch on yotes. Jeff
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Post by SteveCraig on Dec 29, 2004 8:26:36 GMT -6
Myst, You must have never knew Larry Wittman from ND. He used 1/8 and 3/32 cable exclusively. Has snared 1000's of critters to his credit with those cable sizes. FWIW Steve
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myst
Demoman...
Posts: 113
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Post by myst on Dec 29, 2004 13:46:40 GMT -6
Steve I am not a native north dakotan, also I have no problems using larger cable its just when a new oppertunity comes along I will try it out, and using the stingers has been great oppertunity. Its probly not the best idea for someone to snaring to start out with the micro diameter cables,but I felt I had enough experience to try a few. Roger excuse my spelling it sucks once in a while
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