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Post by Steve Gappa on Jul 21, 2004 7:25:22 GMT -6
Coons "natural" rotation is connected to too many things to be "natural".
In farmland- crop harvesting is the cause in a specific year- among other things like weather, natural food selection, etc- but crop harvesting #1
In farmland- from year to year- crop rotation and land use patterns are the #1 reason for shifts in populations.
Also- if you are a good coon trapper- and continually taking out the older coon- esp the sows- you WILL get a noticible drop in populations are trapping there for sevreal years.
I have farms that the farmers tell ME- that my trapping there every year saves them $1000s of dollars each year in saved crop losses- just from the coon.
So - you can play the follow them 1 step behind game (any that say they are right on top of coon in their movements continously- is either setting up ahead of them...or is fibbing. I'll be glad to explain this statement further if interested) and stay with the family groups. I save them until those little guys get a bit bigger (for me, its a main reason I seldom take a coon under 18-20 lbs).
or...you can set up the trails and travelwayswith DIRTHOLES and wait them out.
Given a line of more than a few traps- this provides a nice daily catch of coon- at least in my area.
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Post by Wright Brothers on Jul 21, 2004 10:39:55 GMT -6
Steve says, I'll be glad to explain this statement further if interested. Please do, I've learned or relearned a lot from your writings the last few years. Mostly about cold weather patterns. Here they seem to really head for the barns, for food or breeding or both. I can blind set them with success but bait fails, hence your lure theory I have to try. Tried the cages in barns but the kitties fill them up. One farm that grew only hay only produced boars, I think the sows raising young get the best turf (corn)
A pattern I see here is wild cherry, wild grape, beechnut, corn, acorns, barns, and of course water and anything else they can panhandle. < feel free to add to that list.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 21, 2004 11:29:11 GMT -6
Thanks for te kind words- agree with me or not...but I do try.. "wild cherry, wild grape, beechnut, corn, acorns, barns, and of course water..." add to that apples, dump stations (poultry, dairy, hog) feedlots, sumac berries, mulberries and who knows what else. Here is what I have found- most of these food sources are small- in comparison. That is- it takes but a night or 2 to eat the grapes out of this patch- then move to the next patch, etc. So if you are following- that one step behind- you will find where they are feeding, set up- but they have already moved on. Sure, if you can find food sources of acres and acres- such as corn- they don't move quite as quick...but on the others- the norm (at least around here) are small, scattered sources of berries, nuts, etc. This is why- many times you find fresh coon sign- sign all over, and you set up and tale a coon or two, but no more- the coon have simply moved on. So- you can try to anticipate- set up the berry patches BEFORE the get there- but thats real hard to do. These temporary food sources come and go so quickly- that to find them and state in front...is simply too time consuming for me. And once consumed, unless on travelways, these sources are seldom revisited. I should mention also- that around here- once the corn is gone- so are the coon- like NOW. I read where in other locales, coon feed for days and weeks in picked corn fields- and while I have no doubt this is true- that isn't the case here. Picked fields here have basically no interest for coon. So- what I do is this- I treat upland coon like canines- I set on the travel ways- and wait for them. Say I have 35 good locations set up with a pair of traps- for me- tops of wooded ravines are ideal- and I seldom have a day where I don't have coon to skin. Some coon are going to be moving SOMEWHERE. I do the same at the water. I have one nice location, that is along a creek, corn on both sides (every year), a wooded strip on both sides. I catch a lot of coon there in the winter. I also set it up in the fall- I would think in the fall- dirtholes in the wooded strips would be HOT. And I do take a few coon- but its not HOT. Its just another travel route. So unles you have big dumps, permanent feed sources, etc...I feel you are better off going to a "neutral " location so to speak, and let the coon come to you. Like deer hunting- if you pick a good location and sit there- the deer come to you-you might have to wait a while, but success is assured. Coon are the same.....trappnman
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Post by bblwi2 on Jul 21, 2004 11:38:08 GMT -6
Observations, thoughts and ideas. Open for feedback to learn mre about coon. I live in east-central WI inland about 10 miles from L Michigan. We have a high density dairy farm situation here. We have 260,000 acres of crops, 75,000 alffalfa, 70,000 corn, 20,000 beans, 10,000 wheat and the rest, other grains, veggie crops and other hays.About 20-25,000 acres of the corn is taken as silage, (September 10-Oct 1st) and another 25,000 plus or minus as HMSC Oct 15-Nov 1st. That means 2/3rds of our corn is gone before our season typically begans. The Coon really move to find the remaining fields of later HMSC and or the 20,000 acres that willl be combined dry. Most of the farmers I trap for are dairy farmers so most corn is gone early. Coon move with corn here. We have woods but are very scattered and we do not have the big oak ridges for mast production as other parts of the state. Our non-crop land is more swamp and low forests and or being built up and developed. I find the better dryland trails on upland stone fence lines with corns and wild grapes to be good producers of adult males eary in the season. I have one theory of the water coon being families and females in our area early. Safety first, lots of cover and coon can escape many preditors in swamps, and water. Also if you think about growth and metabolism in young, they need protein to grow tissue and skeletons, clams, insects, frogs, fish etc. are readily available and provide a safe place. The most efficient growth in an animal is while they are young. That is a lb. of dry matter will put on x lb. of growth much more efficiently at 1,2.3,4 months of age say from 2-10lbs than later in life. This is especially true of fat. Fat is the least efficient form of lb. to put on any animal. It takes loads of starch, ie, berries, corn, wheat, beans, acorns or whatever to put on fat gain. Adult animals that need to put on lots of fat hang around the calorie refrigs. Adding fat also releases lots of and creates lots of body heat, so the real urge is to get the gain fast but when it is reasonably cool. We have so many abandoned and or barns in use that provide total environments for coon (shelter,food, water) that they are extensively used by a large portion of our coon population. Here I see the folllowing road killl patterns. Jan-early March few dead coons, almost all large males. April-May more coons almost all females with nipples and milk. Late May June real coon lull. Mid-July-Labor day, many smalll coons, family groups dead on the road. Most family groups hit in may area are on roads and the crossings are near farmsteads where nesting probably occured and mom and kids are ranging to swamps, steams or in August, sweet corn fields. Also berry patches get hit hard to , strawberries, raspberries etc. Later in the summer the melons get hid pretty hard too. Human activity (agricultural mostly) really drives patterns up until about December 1st Iarea. I am also doing more ridge, road and river trapping as many of my dairy farmers are killing all the coon they can during the summer with baits, 22s, their own live traps whatever. This practice started about 10 years ago and my farmstead catch has dropped by 75%. We also have an interesting fall event here L. Michigan tributaries. If there are no dams, the king salmon will swim up the streams and they will all die. These fish are from 10 to 30 lb. When these guys are diing in the shallows of the tributaries boy are the coon, coyotes, dogs, etc. down on the banks having a great time at the seafood buffet! My experience with running a long line is minimal but I have found that if I go to a hot area and say trap for a week and get say 4-5 coons. It goes dead. If I pull an come back 2-3 weeks later I will get more coons, not as many but respectable numbers. If my line is small I can set lighter and stay all season with a steady lower catch or I can hit hard, heavy, move and return or wait till next year to come back. I started prospecting portions of my line with a bike the last two years, wow, what a difference than with an auto. 1/4 as fast as an auto, but 3 times faster than on foot and wow I see and record lots more than with a car and cover more ground than on foot. Besides the passerbys don't look at a guy on a bike with a crash helmet and orange don't hit me flag on my bike as a trapper. It is amazing to watch the trail and sign changes that occur in a two-week period. The real value is locating the new or crop seasonal trails that were not there last year and won't be there after the crop is gone. Please add your thoughts as learning the coons habits is a critical component in trapline success and effiecency.
Bryce
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Post by trappnman on Jul 21, 2004 13:01:11 GMT -6
I'd have to agree with your observations.
My terrian is dissimilar, we do have the oak ridges- but the patterns are the same. Limestone creeks provide many of the same advantages that your swamps do for the mother/kits.
One difference- we have very, very few old buildings. Either the buildings are being used- or they are gone. Not to say that the coon aren't attracted to the occupied barns, etc- they are- but like you say- the farmers make short work of those. Most around here have an ongoing poison solution, plus club and gun.
Those with a coon problem soon figure out the solutions.
Bryce- do you find that your coon stay in picked fields long?
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Post by Rob220swift on Jul 21, 2004 13:44:30 GMT -6
I'm still fine-tuning my understanding of the coon movement in my area, but have some similarities to Steve's situation. Here in the woods oak stands and apple trees will be a part of the pattern as fall progresses. Lots of streams, lakes and rivers so no coon is ever to far from that food and shelter source. I just got permission to trap from a gal who has shot 15 so far this summer in her yard. She agreed to let up for a while or call me if she gets overwhelmed. I'm hoping she will save them for Oct. when the fur is good. Road ditches, culverts and any bridge have continual movement until it's really cold. I plan on using Steve's system this year and expect to double my catch and perhaps triple it. Still haven't caught a coon smaller than Large.
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Post by chub618 on Jul 21, 2004 17:59:09 GMT -6
very interesting... man this is good stuff and i though coon were strictly water... think ill set up some small woodlots with dirt holes and wait them out. might be able to pick up a grey fox or two this way
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Post by bblwi on Jul 21, 2004 20:00:55 GMT -6
Steve,
To answer your questions on cornfields in our area. 1st. corn is only 25% of our cropland as compared to southern WI, IA, Ill and MN where corn could be 60% plus of total cropland and harvested later for dry corn also. 2nd on our cornsilage fields harvested in Sept, the whole crop is gone,(no cover or food) and the farmers typically apply several thousands of gals of liquid manure and chisel or moldboard plow that ground. Wildlife desert. 3. The HMSC (high moisture shelll corn 25-32% moisture) provides several opportunities for field loss during harvest. This is especially true on the outside rows where stress creates more odd-sized cobs and they do not shell as good or clean. Plus the driven over cover provides reasonable protection for coon sized animals. If the field is near woods and water the coon will search for spilled corn and mice till that too is manured and plowed. 3rd our dry corn typically stands till early to mid-November and is quickly worked after harvest before frost, so most coon are feeding while the crop is standing. Our farmers here do very little no-till on corn ground and therefore harvest loss is typically covered with manure and worked in the ground ASAP after harvest. Watching harvest progress here is a big deal. Another concern is setting up recently harvested corn fields along the wood and marsh edges trying to guess when the liquid tankers and or plows are coming. I typically try not to play that Russian Roulette game and try to prospect where the coon maybe or are going. I am deliberately trying to get permissions from more non-dairy farmers and cash croppers. They harvest corn later, grow more corn , use less tillage and spread less manure. these all add to more coon with less work and stress. What is your crop situation like for coon for you? I would also like to take this whole scenario on crops, rotation, tillage and apply it to yotes. You game for that one too.
Bryce
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Post by trappnman on Jul 21, 2004 20:58:28 GMT -6
This isn't my field you understand, and I don't have the statistics like you do- but reasonable guesses.
I would say most farms either dairy or beef or both. typical scenerio- 1 home farm, 2-5 other farms owned by sons, brothers, etc. All kinda worked as one. So even if only 1 farm is milked- the others revolve around milking. This means lots of hy, fair bit of pasture for young stock, beef.
Most of my coon farms are in the foothills of the Mississippi river and other smaller rivers. The farmland is rollingfields- with lots of ridges and oak ravines. Mst farms have beans, hay (with oats first year) and corn. Pasture...maybe overall 10-15%. some farms with beed- 25% pasture.
Most all the crops are rotated- few cash crop operations. Contour strips are the rule.
Most corn is picked and shelled- more silage is hay than corn- although many cut the outer rows for silage, then the inner stuff is picked. Little corn is left in the fields over winter- if it is, it usually is weather related. Not sure I knew of any corn left over winter this year.
Most beans are picked by Oct 15- with the rest following shortly. By Oct 15- say 25% of the corn- and that goes quick- by Nov 1- most corn gone.
more and more corn stalks round baled every year. Most farmers do plow corn- but thats last thing- Beans, corn, bale stalks, bring in stalks- all takes a month or so.
Now concerning coyotes- I believe absolutely that coyotes in my type of country- once corn gets head high- its the coyotes main habitat. By that I mean he sleeps in it, hunts it it, rests in it, travels undetected i nit. I can't tell you the times I've turned a corner on a hay strip -and there a coyote is standing next to te corn...and he just slides away.
Playing the harvest- very important Most farms cut a hay crop in Sept- so hay fields are short.
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